Re. Update

[thedudeabidez]

Thanks for the update, Shenandoah.

A couple of things:

1.) The AI seems to be acting very strangely with the Allied 7th Armor. In 4 straight games of Meuse I saw it make the same first move upon entry every time: a U-turn! It goes from Verviers to Spa to Stourmont then back to Herve, which is a very odd place to be when Spa, Verviers, Stourmont etc. are all left open. Maybe have a look...

2.) Not sure how much improved the AI grasp of supply is. I saw Patton throw two full-strength infantry division into an attack on the Axis right flank in Elsenborn which was immediately cut off from supply in my next two moves, using only two 2-point infantry units. The AI seems to be prioritising the high-odds attack, while it still doesn't seem to understand that if the only space conencting you to the board edge is empty, and there's an unactivated enemy unit next to it, you're in trouble. Then again, a lot of human players take a while to figure this out too

[thedudeabidez]

Also, the Dietrich AI was also acting funky. It moved Pz. Lehr back into Baasem, didn't move it forward till the 18th, pretty nonsensical move. Also threw the infantry into wild suicidal attacks at 2:5, 2:4, 1:4, all against defenders in good terrain. I also saw it move infantry forward into an attack while leaving the accompanying panzer where it was, blowing an activation. Not good play by any standard.

Don't mean to be compaining, I know this must be tough; just trying to provide some feedback.

[blahblah3502]

Also, the Dietrich AI was also acting funky. It moved Pz. Lehr back into Baasem, didn't move it forward till the 18th, pretty nonsensical move. Also threw the infantry into wild suicidal attacks at 2:5, 2:4, 1:4, all against defenders in good terrain. I also saw it move infantry forward into an attack while leaving the accompanying panzer where it was, blowing an activation. Not good play by any standard.

Don't mean to be compaining, I know this must be tough; just trying to provide some feedback.

Yes, just played new Dietrich AI, and it seems to be loving the suicidal odds attacks ... Don't remember this issue from pre-update Dietrich?

[s_MesaDon]

Is that the whole update? Three things? With the number of request by the community, I am shocked that is all that happened. I believe there were many requests to allow the battle to continue past early victory conditions met to allow players to play all 13 days. I am starting to feel this is way overpriced as personally I am getting bored with the limited battles and repetition of same strategies including multiplayer (I have given up on multiplayer it has become boring.). Now take Battle Academy, while twice the cost, the content is incredible and I have played that since it came out on the PC and still play solo and multiplayer and I believe it has been almost 3 years and not bored yet. I have been playing war games since my brother bought Avalon Hill' Blitzkrieg back in late 60s. Therefore I am not new to the genre. I still put out one of the old titles now and then. I just can't see that OCD with this game. I really don't feel that while the post are read they aren't really "listened" to.

[Yojimbo252]

Is that the whole update? Three things? With the number of request by the community, I am shocked that is all that happened. I believe there were many requests to allow the battle to continue past early victory conditions met to allow players to play all 13 days....I really don't feel that while the post are read they aren't really "listened" to.

I think that's a little unfair.

The game has only been out for a few weeks. Although I don't know when the update was submitted, it can take a week or two to be approved by Apple. Throw in the fact that we've just had the Christmas and New Year period where people are naturally going to be on annual leave. So it may well be that the update was finalised not long after the game was released.

I didn't expect the update to contain any of the new features we've been discussing over the past couple of weeks as Shenandoah simply haven't had the time to develop and test them thoroughly for an initial update that is with us now. And to be completely honest whilst I'm not that bothered about single player, a lot of the initial feedback has been from players regarding the AI so it's not surprising to me at least that that is where Shenandoah have focused their early attention along with fixing the victory supply bug which is game breaking.

So with respect I don't think it's a question of whether Shenandaoh are listening, it's whether your expectations are realistic.

[s_MesaDon]

I believe expectations are realistic that more could be done that being said I really must say there is little staying power with the game. Lots of flash but little behind it. Unlike some people who post on forums I am not a tool but give my opinion god or bad based on my thoughts. I do not try to butt kiss developers but read many posts and many people do. Hopefully that doesn't make a difference.

[Yojimbo252]

I do not try to butt kiss developers but read many posts and many people do.

Is that even relevant to this discussion?

[s_pixelgeek]

I believe expectations are realistic...

People requesting things on the forum doesn't make them magically appear in the game. Even if the devs wanted to add the features that we asked for they would need to be implemented and tested. None of this happens overnight.

[s_MesaDon]

The developers have not posted that they were updating or the what and why. They have not, at this time, even given a blueprint or a plan so the purchasers would have hope for the future. Sadly this is a trend among many iOS developers who rush on to the next project and leave the buyer holding the bag on games that could be great with a high degree of replay ability. This game as not reached that point and I am beginning to have doubt that it will. If this was a PC game it would not receive the ratings etc. that it gets and people would complain. Should we except less because it is an iOS gamer? Before anyone says "We'll then don't buy it". I reply without that purchase I would not be able to have an informed opinion but I can say at the present level of this game I will no longer purchase a game by Shenandoah.

[gregorit]

Crikey, as a fellow customer, MesaDon, I'm a little weirded out by your response. Your expectations are WAY beyond unrealistic, they're approaching insane. Because a user wants some new feature means it should get rammed in there right away? Pissing on the company because they're not keeping you informed with their development plan and schedule? You'll never buy anything from them again until the game reaches your "level"? There's a conspiracy that inflates IOS game ratings? Relax, dude.

[Phormic]

I've noticed after the update that when playing the Axis, the AI for both Monty and Patton, are now really keen to stack as many units in Bastogne as it can, which can leave the roads to the Meuse further north, wide open.

[s_MesaDon]

Crikey, as a fellow customer, MesaDon, I'm a little weirded out by your response. Your expectations are WAY beyond unrealistic, they're approaching insane. Because a user wants some new feature means it should get rammed in there right away? Pissing on the company because they're not keeping you informed with their development plan and schedule? You'll never buy anything from them again until the game reaches your "level"? There's a conspiracy that inflates IOS game ratings? Relax, dude.

Insanity is not one of my numerous attributes so relax yourself. The one feature I mentioned is not unique to me. Inflated ratings are a fact. Most rating come before the person has really spent time with an app. I never mentioned conspiracy so maybe you need to stop and reread prior to comments. Now while I respect your right to post your feelings, I expect the same right without all your little veiled insults ..... "dude". Last post, I really do not have the time to respond to what is "weirding (to use your terminology)" me out.

[daviddunham]

I’d like to request that everyone keep their disagreements civil. (Perhaps you can resolve them with a duel: Battle of the Bulge via Game Center?)

[rbeyma]

The game will not be everyone's cup of tea, that is understandable. I think if you are seeking an immersive totally customizable single player experience then perhaps this game is not for you. I think the strength of this game lies in its multiplayer matchmaking and accessibility. A game with such historical theme and depth combined with intuitive ease of play isn't something I've come across before.

Towards the end of leveraging its success as a multiplayer game, I think further updates should focus on enhancing the community support and game center integration.

[Yojimbo252]

I think the strength of this game lies in its multiplayer matchmaking and accessibility...Towards the end of leveraging its success as a multiplayer game, I think further updates should focus on enhancing the community support and game center integration.

I couldn't agree more... http://www.shenandoah-studio.com/Forum/ ... =8&t=9#p59

[s_MesaDon]

I think the strength of this game lies in its multiplayer matchmaking and accessibility...Towards the end of leveraging its success as a multiplayer game, I think further updates should focus on enhancing the community support and game center integration.

I couldn't agree more... http://www.shenandoah-studio.com/Forum/ ... =8&t=9#p59

Disagree, further updates should focus on game improvements and increase in playability this would improve solo play and inprove the multiplayer game which after bunch of games I am totally bored with. Seeing the same thing over and over. I think that many people buy these games to play solo.

[s_ron42na]

Concerning solo play, I've never seen an AI in an iOS game that was actually competitive after I'd played against it a few times and learned how it "thinks". The AI's I've seen that are difficult to beat are only difficult because they do things like significantly increase the random factors to favor the AI over the player (ex: having AI tanks hit 90% of the time and only 50% for the player). Personally, I hate these types of AI's and find them even more frustrating than easy to beat AI's.

Unless we are willing to pay significantly more for the game (and more than any other iOS game costs today), I don't think it's reasonable to expect an AI that's competitive in the long-term.

So, I'm hoping the devs spend almost all of their time on enhancing the player vs. player aspect of the game. This means a slightly better GC experience (passing notes would be great and bidding would also be nice), and adding some optional variability to the game such as longer game length, some flexibility in initial unit placement and possibly an initial unit purchase option (like Battle Academy). Victory condition tweaks may also be needed, but I'm not certain about that yet...I've seen plenty of games in the past where the initial views on balance changed significantly over time.

[blahblah3502]

I think the strength of this game lies in its multiplayer matchmaking and accessibility...Towards the end of leveraging its success as a multiplayer game, I think further updates should focus on enhancing the community support and game center integration.

I couldn't agree more... http://www.shenandoah-studio.com/Forum/ ... =8&t=9#p59

I agree too - the multiplayer experience, while it certainly could be improved in terms of features, options, UI etc - of this game is amazing. I've probably played ( or am in the middle of playing) about 50 games so far on multiplayer and the variability and surprises in the gameplay is still highly engaging and interesting. And I'm not a grognard at all
I like and applaud the work on the AI - which has its flaws, because AI is hard, and certainly want to see it improved but the multiplayer is gold. It's totally displaced my Hero Academy time!

[Yojimbo252]

I think the strength of this game lies in its multiplayer matchmaking and accessibility...Towards the end of leveraging its success as a multiplayer game, I think further updates should focus on enhancing the community support and game center integration.

I couldn't agree more... http://www.shenandoah-studio.com/Forum/ ... =8&t=9#p59

Disagree, further updates should focus on game improvements and increase in playability this would improve solo play and inprove the multiplayer game which after bunch of games I am totally bored with. Seeing the same thing over and over. I think that many people buy these games to play solo.

I'm not against enhancements that improve both the single and multiplayer experience, that's a win for all concerned. But that wasn't my point.

Where certain improvements are mutually exclusive (eg. AI improvements vs Chat functionality) I'd like to see prioritisation based on the amount of benefit gained and time and resources required. A developer could continue to throw more resources at making the AI even stronger but each increment takes relatively more effort, and you've always got the difficulty in deciding where the finish line is. The benefit is also short term because once the player can beat the AI consistently at that new level, it's unlikely to hold that player's interest for much longer.

The thing that can really give a game longevity in my opinion is the multiplayer experience because there really is no substitute for playing against another human player in terms of challenge and exploring all the corners of the game.

I appreciate you may not be suggesting AI improvements necessarily, I'm just using that as an example to get my point across.

[s_MesaDon]

I can agree about a Chat feature. Not being able to send a message with your turn removes, in my opinion, an enjoyable aspect of multi-player. It can build a greater sense of community and adds a sense of actually playing a real person. My major want is more scenarios, based on the game as is in the same time frame and for solo the ability to play the whole 13 days regardless of points. As for the AI I do not expect a major overhaul, just tweaks as they are pointed out. Without the chat and more battle scenarios or battle options the staying power will decrease quicker then would be expected for this game.