Multiplayer Tips

[goose_2]

Ok,
I have wanted to post on this topic for quite sometime and after I have had several different users ask me about strategy and tips I thought I would start a new topic.

I will start with some of the basics and build from there. Seeing what I can bounce out in the last 15 minutes before I leave work on Friday.

The first thing that will help you differentiate yourself from all other competitors is to practice the 3 S's.
Suppress
Surround
Surrender
Suppress the enemy unit.
Surround the enemy unit.
Push it with a minimal hit that will force it to surrender when it cannot retreat and you will be rewarded with a nice amount of much needed prestige.

Do this and it will place you in the top players of the game.

The 2nd thing is pay close attention to what you can and should buy.
The first couple of rounds especially what you buy and how quickly you take over the map, on balanced multiplayer maps, play a key role in how you survive.
If you take over more area and force the other opponent to have to attack while you have success all but wrapped up as long as you defend that will help you win most games.

3rd thing:
Pay close attention to where the key objectives are located and take over the ones you need to win.

4th thing:
Try and use sneaky units, like MT. Troop units to maneuver around the major attack and sneak into their unguarded back field. (A lot of players leave their back field open to this kind of sneaky attack.)

5th thing:
Know what to defend and how to defend it.
Force your attacker to have to bring everything and force them into a war of attrition as quickly as possible so that you can bleed them dry of much needed prestige. (This is very true in defensive scenarios where the attacker is meant to steamroll the enemy and you can stop them or stymie their advance do it.)
How do you do that?
Bring everything you can to the front lines. (Force them to hack through every inch by inch)
Defend along river hexes, not on river hexes, but force them to have to try to assault across a river.

6th thing:
Use Artillery.
Artillery and AA units especially the ones that can switch between air and anti tank mode are some of the best units in the game. Use artillery to suppress their units and their artillery and their aa so you can assault with the highest effect.
If you are not using artillery and as much as you can multiple artillery, to defend your cities you will be overrun.

That is enough for now.
Please share your thoughts or questions.

I love this game and I love frustrating my fellow opponents by taking their strongest unit and force surrendering it for a ton of prestige. (That gets them everytime)

Until next time...Stay Lutheran My Friends.

[goose_2]

Some other suggestions/ tips.

Destroy rather than injure:
Bring everything necessary to kill a unit rather than wounding it. It costs so much more to buy an entire unit rather than buying replacements.

Experiment with various units.
There are many units that can and may become your favorite units to help you surprise and overwhelm your opponent.

Realize you are playing a single scenario rather than a campaign.
Play accordingly. You are not making purchases as if you are playing a campaign and will benefit you later one. You are buying units that will stop your opponent from winning. This means buying units that may overwhelm your opponent and may be cheap and not the best but help to prevent a win for your opponent.

Back away injured units and try to replace them later on, rather than buying replacements where they are at.

Sight is key.
This is expecially true if you play like I do with undo off.

Set up ambushes and make them pay for their aggression.

This seems basic but needs to be said as many players make these mistakes all of the time.

Do not put your hard units like AT units, AA units, tanks, or recons in close terrain like Bocage, Woods, or Cityscapes. This makes them incredibly vulnerable to a basic infantry unit. Do not lose an expensive tank or Elephant by taking a city thinking you will be safe. You will be destroyed.

Always use the advantage of Mass attack. Bring everything you can to attack your opponent that garners the best results.
I cannot tell you how many times I watch my opponent try and attack my units with single unit attacks. This will never get you the best results, and will help make it that much sweeter when I beat you.

That is it for now.

[Rag116]

Your 3 S's is what I hate about this game. The Surrender factor, surround a combat unit with trucks attack it with a weak unit and it surrender's! BS I say.

[Rayrard]

Yeah, the surrender thing is very frustrating, especially when the opponent gets a lucky suppression from artillery and forces a heavy unit to surrender. As I like to back units with artillery and AA on defense, the AI simply tries to shell the artillery. A human player could shell the front line, attack with a tank, force a unit to surrender, and then run another unit into its place and attack the artillery behind it. It's almost like if you aren't dug in +4 that a unit will have a hard time holding out against a human attacker. I can't imagine a strat bomber and a few artillery suppressing a Tiger to almost 100% and getting forced to surrender by an infantry!

It's almost like it's best to defend with straight front lines instead of "bent" lines. The salient point will be overrun quickly. If you do a straight line with gaps in the rear, at least units can retreat.

I think it would be good to take a specific scenario and compare and contrast the "AI experience" versus the "human experience". Seems like maybe a fluid defense in depth is more effective than the massing at chokepoints that works against the AI? What is the best way of neutralizing and destroying human-led artillery? I can't imagine a human player will expose them to attack like the AI does with moving trucks ahead of the army.

[Rag116]

I played one player who loves to use this tactic extensively, use up to 3 arty units and maybe 3 to 4 other units, its hard to counter, can't attack arty with inf it gets suppressed as the other arty is back to back supporting each other. Only heavy tanks have a chance at it, but you have to have that available at the right time and place.
I would like to see a retreat move its full movement points away from the point of attack. But I know that can't implemented into the game as it stands right now.

Maybe the truck thing wasn't really used just want to get my point across with non front line combat units. But the arty is used a lot as part of the blocking element with the same effect. Also a reinforced unit can start suppressed, which can have the same result. Lost a full strength armor unit that way without taking any damage forced to retreat, surrendered instead. Very frustrating.

[ThvN]

Very nice tips!

The weather is also important to take into consideration. You can have jet fighters, but if it is snowing they won't do much good. The initiative cap during bad weather can be very dangerous if you rely on units winning through superior initiative.

I do not have much experience with multiplayer, and I think I lost a lot more than I won, so my tips might not be that useful... And I agree that surrendering is a bit too easy. I think most artillery is a bit too powerful, especially the SP artillery. While the AI can't use it very effectively, a human player can do a lot of damage with the right tactics.

Experiment with various units.
There are many units that can and may become your favorite units to help you surprise and overwhelm your opponent.

Trains. I played against a friend (vanilla Stalingrad) and he discovered just how fast they were... It was hilarious to outpace several air units with some old steam locomotive. We eventuelly made a gentlemans agreement to curb their use.
And I used a lot of cheap recon units that slowly made their way around and stopped in sight of flags to see if they were empty. Than quickly grab some points, and make sure they remained out of sight.

Playing multiplayer did show how odd some of the unit stats really are, there are some very unbalanced units that can really ruin the experience. The German airforce is very strong, and I've had some ridiculous combats were a single Fw190 would win against multiple Allied fighters with ease. If I played as Soviet I would often not buy air units at all, just AAA, including the T-90, which seems to be the most hated unit by players. Although the overpowered KV tanks and Soviet assault guns balanced it a bit.

And I've got a question for everyone. When you play multiplayer, are there any units that really stick out as being too powerful or weak compared to their historical effectiveness ? It seems multiplayer really highlights the outliers, so I'm curious about how other people view this. Examples: I've noticed that most SP artillery units are overpowered (too much ammo, very high defense), and a lot of units have stats that I can't match up with their actual performance (SiG33/SU-122 with 3 range?).

[Rag116]

Artillery units seemed a bit OP with the suppression / surrender factor, good with reduction of the fortifying effect and damage factor. Seems like the high/low amount ammo would go along with caliber of the arty unit, the lower caliber would seem to have more amount of ammo that unit would be able to carry and vice versa.

Their are a lot of SP arty units on all sides with a range of 3 so I guess that's ok not sure on the historical range factor of the SU-122, but then trying to figure out the scale of the battle your playing at the moment can be hard. Is it a Battalion, Brigade, Division. The lager the scale the less range arty would have.

Historical effectiveness seems to be on track with the game. Though I was surprised to see the US Ranger and I think the British SAS units not able to conduct Airborne operations.

[captainjack]

I've noticed that most SP artillery units are overpowered (too much ammo,

I agree the ammo count for the SP artillery is odd. The Bishop held something like 30 shells, and this and the cramped space appeared to be the biggest problems, yet it has way more than the 3 or 4 ammos this would suggest. The US SP 155 unit also had low ammo carrying capacity yet it has 10 ammo, which is more than the towed artillery has.

[Waltero]

For newbs (like me) it might be a good idea to start (issue challenge) your first few games with no fog (off), undo move, see opponents turn.
If you create they will come...Watch and learn.


P.S. Cant believe somebody (in game) told me the "D" key was to view casualties...got to love it

[Rag116]

One other thing is that I was wondering, why the medium German Panther(75mm gun) has a larger attack factor (19 Armor) than the Heavy Tiger I tank (88mm) (17 Armor)?

[goose_2]

Ok I have some time right now to detail my Strategy with Poland on the Poland scenario.
I will detail the battle with Bracadda as it turned out to be the most dynamic battle and I like the way it turned out better then the one against Sylvio where the Poles were conquered on Day 14. I conquered his Poles on Day 11 on both Sylvio battle and Bracadda battle.

I may put that up on another day.

Hopefully this day by day helps you to see some of the intricacies and tricks you can use to maximize your wins against other humans.

Day 1 Germany's Blitzkrieg
He destroyed Cavalry in the woods, inf in Cieszyn, and inf in Katowice.
They are pressuring Katowice, Cieszyn, and Nowy Sacz
Day 1 Sunny
Bomber and inf in Nowy Sacz hit inf pressuring -5 them -2 me. I retreated into the mountains to the right to use later.
Bought Mt. Troop around Cracow, as well as an arty and AA around Lodz.
Now moved my Cavalry up North near Kutno, moved inf in Kalisz in train over to Warsaw, because AT moved in Train over to Lodz. Taking another inf in center to help retreat from Cracow.

Day 2 ai CA Bracadda seized Cieszyn, Katowice, and Nowy Sacz, as well as pressured Kalisz.
Day 2 Rainy
I hit inf that took Nowy Sacz -4 me -2 them
All other units moving to strategic locations and moving to do some fun stuff.

Day 3 ai CA German Inf. probed onto Warta River
German units took Cracow and airfield as well as Kalisz.
Day 3 Rainy again
2 artys and Polish inf pushed German inf down river; 7TP tried to destroy this 3 str unit but backed by unseen Sturmpanzer. NuTS!
Bought 4 rep for Mt. Pol inf. and also moved Mt. Inf closer to Nowy Sacz.

Day 4 ai CA Bracadda's fighter and Fighter Bomber destroyed my fighter.
Arty hit my 7TP -1/ Pz3E, arty, and Recon hit my Pol Inf on River and left me with 2 str.
3 German inf surrounded and destroyed my Polish inf after german arty suppressed my arty -4
Slovak unit in Nowy Sacz pushed my Mt. inf away and left me with 5 str and them with 4 str.
Day 4 Sunny
Bomber, Cavalry destroyed Pz1B on Warta River
2 arty and Polish inf on Warta hit German inf and left them with 6 str left.
Destroyed Slovak inf at Nowy Sacz -2 me
Mt. inf took Stara Lubovna
75MM and Pol Inf hit Pz2c in airfield -2 them -3 me

Day 5 ai CA Bracadda pulled out all of the stops and hit me with 2 arty, fighter Bomber, Pz3E and recon to destroy my 7TP (Was not expecting that kind of concerted attack)
Gerbisjager hit my Polish Mt. Inf near Nowy Sacz and left me with 3 str and them 6 str.
Pz1a and Pz2c hit my 75mm arty and left me with 3 str 1 ammo, as well as remaining Polish inf near Cracow with 3 str left.
Day 5 Sunny
Last shot of 75 mm arty and surrounded with Newly purchased Mt. Inf and 3 Str Polish Inf. Force Surrendered Pz2C
Took Nowy Sacz with 5 str Mt. Inf and bought 7 rep for Southern Mt. Inf. as well as 8 rep for Pol inf in Lodz
Cannon hit recon -2/ Bomber and other cannon tried hitting Pz3e on Warta with no results
AA hit Fighter Bomber -2
Purchased Reg Inf at Radomsko

That is all for now as time has got away from me.
More to come on this wild adventure.
Until then...Stay Lutheran My Friends.

[goose_2]

A little more time to give a few more tips from recent play of Poland as Poland

Day 6 ai CA
Lost 75 mm arty, Polish Inf, and Mt. Inf. (This means my front next to Cracow has completely collapsed. )
Their Fighter Bomber hit my Bomber and left me with 1 str left.
Their arty suppressed my arty -2 me
Their Recon -1, Pz3e -1, German inf -1, all hit my AA and left me with 1 str left.
Gerbisjager hit Mt. Inf in Nowy Sacz -1 them -4 me and I have 1 str left.
Day 6 Sunny
Southern Polish Mt. Inf destroyed Gerbisjager
Bought 9 reg rep for Mt. Inf in Nowy Sacz
2 artys and 3 Polish inf all took a whack at Pz3e and left him with 3 str.
Bought 4 rep for AA

Day 7 ai CA Fighter Bomber hit AA; Arty suppressed by arty -2 me; arty suppressed my inf that they surrounded and force surrendered ; Their recon and German inf hit suppressed arty reducing it to 5 str. Their Recon reduced to 6 str., Their German inf reduced to 7 and the enemy seized Sandomierz
Day 7 Sunny
Last ammo on 5 str arty suppressed recon and Bomber hit recon -1 and this left me with Polish inf to force surrendered recon.
AA hit Fighter Bomber -1.
Bought 4 reg rep for Polish inf next to Radomsko.
Moved Cavalry onto Northern Warta and tried hitting inf on Warta guarded by arty -4me -1 them...not smart
Mt. Inf sees unit left in Cracow and moved unit closer to Zilina.

Day 8 ai CA Fighter Bomber destroyed my Bomber; 2 artys and inf pushed my Polish Inf. on to the Warta River 3 str left; German inf took Radomsko; Pz1a pressuring Radom
Day 8 Sunny
Mt. Pol inf pressuring Zilina.
arty hit German inf on Warta -3, AT hit inf and pushed off -4 them, Cavalry snuck and hit each for loss of 2 but pushed them back on to the Warta, which allowed my 6 str Pol inf to destroy German inf.
Moved my polish inf next to arty and other Polish Inf deeper onto southern portion of Warta River. (I want them to have to work to destroy)

More another time as it is time to go for the day. I hope you are enjoying this detailed report, and are learning some of the sneaky stuff you can use to turn to your advantage.

[goose_2]

Now to give more of this epic battle over my lunch break:

Day 9 ai CA
Radom seized
They destroyed my Polish inf on Warta, but it took their Fighter Bomber, German Inf, and Fighter
2 artys suppressed my arty this helped them use Gerbisjager and reg inf to reduce my Pol Inf to 1 str left
Day 9 Sunny
Retook Kalisz, Cieszyn, and Zilina
Retreated 1 str inf into Lodz
Based on all the prestige I recovered from the seizure from those cities I was able to buy reg inf in Warsaw; Mt. Inf in entrenchment next to Lodz; and 4 reg rep for Polish inf

Day 10 ai CA
Fighter Bomber softened up inf at Warsaw and Pz1A pressuring Warsaw; arty hit AA and reg inf reduced it to 3 str; Fighter destroyed 1 str inf in Lodz -1 them because of my AA
Day 10 Cloudy
Pressuring Neutitschein
Fort and inf hit Pz1A -3 them; 2 artys and Pol inf hit Germ inf in hills -2 me -4 them
Bought 7 str for AA

Day 11 ai CA Fighter Bomber softened up entrenchment of inf in Warsaw; German inf hit inf in Warsaw -5me -2 them; 2 artys suppressed as much of arty around Lodz as possible -3 me; Pz3E, German inf, Gerbisjager hit entrenched Mt. inf -4 me -2 Pz3E and -2 German inf
Day 11 Cloudy
Took airfield next to Oppeln and Neutitschein
Fort hit inf pressuring Warsaw -2
Arty hit Pz1A -2, 8 Str inf in airfield pushed him onto the Bzura -2 him, 5 str inf in Warsaw destroyed Pz1A on Bzura (Always destroy units when and if you can of course these leaves Warsaw wide open but it is ok to destroy another unit.)
Moved my 6 str Mt troop onto airfield and bought another Mt. Troop in entrenchment

Day 12 ai CA
Fighter hit Cavalry on airfield next to Oppeln -3 me
They took Warsaw
2 artys suppressed inf and Fighter Bomber softened up Mt Troop in entrenchment so German inf could Force Surrender it (Well played my friend well played)
They bought Kavalrie next to Katowice in view of my Mt. Inf
Pressuring Lodz and hit inf in airport 4 str left
German inf hit Polish unit in hills and pushed them out with 2 str left
Day 12 Sunny
Fort hit German inf in Warsaw which allowed 5 str Polish inf to destroy German inf in Warsaw and this meant that 2 str inf could retake Warsaw for an easy 100
2 artys softened up Gerbisjager and then 4 str inf in airport self emulated on Gerbisjager pressuring Lodz but this allowed me to push them off from pressuring Lodz
My AA destroyed Fighter Bomber
AT pushed Gerbisjager -4 out of entrenchment and they have 1 str left
Took Oppeln and Mt. Inf hit Kavalrie -3 each

Day 13 through 17 and the conclusion shall be next time and I plan on setting up round 3 for Multiplayer Tournament tomorrow.

Until then...Stay Lutheran My Friends

[goose_2]

Day 13 ai CA
German inf hit 5 str Pol Inf. -4 me -1 them
Arty in Lodz was suppressed -3 me, Arty next to Lodz hit by German inf -7 me -2 him
Inf -2 them 4 str left and Pz3E -1 them hit entrenched inf -1 me
Kavallrie and Fighter hit my Mt. Inf. both have 4 str left
Day 13 Sunny
5 str Polish Cavalry and 4 Str Mt inf destroyed Kavalrie in Katowice
Bought complete replacements for units in Warsaw

Day 14 ai CA
arty, German inf, Fighter, and 4 str German inf destroyed my Polish inf.
German inf destroyed my 3 str arty on Bzura
Gerbisjager hit Pol inf in airfield -1 each
Lodz defense is collapsing
Day 14 Sunny
Mt. Inf seized Katowice
Pol arty hit Germ inf -1, AT hit same German Inf onto the Bzura -2 them, Polish inf hit them on river -3 me -2 them
Bought rep for Mt. inf near Katowice and Polish Cavalry to bring them to full strength

Day 15 ai CA
arty suppressed my arty -2
Gerbisjager, Reg Inf, and Pz3E -1 each of them leaving them all with 6 str. hitting my AT and seized my airfield next to Lodz and Kutno seized
Day 15 Cloudy
arty and 2 inf tried hitting inf onto the river -1 them and left me with 7 str for both of my Pol inf :/
7 rep for Mt inf I retreated away from Lodz and 8 for Mt. troop in Katowice
Pressuring Cracow with Mt. Inf and Cavalry

Day 16 ai CA
AT in Lodz destroyed and 7 str Polish inf was destroyed by German inf but left them with 1 str; my arty reduced to 3 str and no ammo
Lodz seized
Day 16 Sunny
Gerbisjager in Cracow reduced to 2 str all of my infs have 4 0r 5 str surrounding Cracow.
10 str Mt. inf reduced their 5 str inf to 1 str and out of ammo.
Bought 1 more Mt. Inf in Warsaw with prestige seized from airfield next to Cracow

Day 17 ai CA
3 arty and 5 str inf pushed Mt. Inf off Warsaw and then Pz3E seized Warsaw and destroyed my Mt. Inf
Day 17 Cloudy
Inf reseized Kutno and destroyed inf in Swamp. Mt inf and cavalry destroyed Gerbisjager in Krakow and seized it for the win.

Mischief and sneaky pete is the key to staving off the German player and possibly pulling out a win out of Poland.

Boom!! Hope this helps those that are trying to learn how to play this game versus a human player.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

[goose_2]

I am bringing this to the front on the forum in honor of the Tournament

Please share any thoughts on this post.

[woken]

One other thing is that I was wondering, why the medium German Panther(75mm gun) has a larger attack factor (19 Armor) than the Heavy Tiger I tank (88mm) (17 Armor)?

The Panther's 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 had better penetrating power than the Tiger's 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56 due to a larger charge and its longer barrel (5250mm) vs the Tiger's 4928mm long barrel.

[PeteMitchell]

Goose maybe now you can write me a collection of tips and tricks for multiplayer haha. I am good at campaigns of single player but your much better at multiplayer.

@Stephan1024: let's bring this thread back up again, let's see what can be added!

I think one thing could be about knowing/reading the map?

Maybe anything form the big MP tournament?!

[Stephen1024]

First question should always be what map made up of?
Lots open ground Tank heavy army.
Closed ground (forest, hills, city, bocage and mountains etc). Take more infantry heavy army If got more infantry probably wise have extra arty.
Sea probably going need strat bombers.

If you choose go tank heavy make sure got few anti infantry tanks cover yourself. (use lot more arty and tacs if run into infantry in closed ground) keep damage to the min. Half destroying your tank kill infantry leaves your tank open on next enemy move.

If you choose to go infantry heavy then add extra AT unit again this cover you for anything might come up unexpectedly.

Where is main battle going take place? Most of map may have skirmishes but one point (area) should be big battle.
If your defending you ultimately have bit more choice. Most common thing is for someone/Ai to come straight to that point. What are various paths to? What are best sights for ambushes? What points could easily be defended? Those points that can easily be defended is there ways around or weakness to those defence positions?

Is it fighting with drawl? if no go to next question What style defence do you want to employ purely defensive or more aggressive defence? Aggressive defence might split forces have one part defend that position while 2nd part either races behind enemy capturing there positions or circles behind and attacks enemy from rear as it attacks main force.. Attacking rear gives you easy access to undefended arty and AA. Destroying arty stop them doing so much damage and destroying AA opens them up to your air force.

From those question you should build defence plan. Remember plan is not something solid, has to change and adapt as you gain info and/or things change. Your orders should help you with answering questions and making good plan.
When defending should have more arty. Never expect any air force you use on defensive map to help, why weather you think air force rescue you and weather turns bad your stuck. Air force is just bonus you can use most of the time. First job of an air force is control of the skies not come rescue you.

If your the aggressor then need ask yourself these questions. Is straight path best plan? What might be waiting on straight path. Will I come across lot fixed positions (bunkers etc). What are the other routes to. What advantages do those paths have? What the best ambush sites and if I was doing the ambush what would I place there as ambush units? Would flanking or hitting enemy's rear be better or even possible and does it give me an advantage and surprise? What are the chances of forcing my opponent to fight a battle in different place? Is it worth while to force my opponent change positions? Is the enemy position completely avoidable? Can I achieve my objectives without engaging his main force?

Defensive or attacking. What tactics will play out best for this fight? Flanking, Rolling defence, Spear thrust, Arty barrages, Smashing whole with air power etc?

How can I annoy, surprise or trick my opponent? Could you use specialist equipment? What specialist equipment? Will it help you achieve your objectives more easily? Where to place? What is there objective? If something goes wrong how can you rescue them? Never want lose specialist equipment as not often used and want experienced units not green for specialist work.

From all that should have idea what you expect to face and where. So what is best core force and do you need more then 1 force. What are those forces going be made up of? What is there objectives and what order? where will I place each unit? What part will weather play? How do you plan change things if get lot bad weather?

From the above what groupings do you plan to use. Units should have best friends near them. Infantry should have tank and arty as cover. Infantry with AT and arty Point is to always have right tools to do job and also cover each other. Infantry in open ground is dead to tank but tank is dead to AT and arty always helps protect. Tank destroys infantry/tank and infantry kills AT and both covered by arty.

If things do go wrong or price starts become to heavy then what's plan? Do I need complete all objectives or do I cut short so not to cost myself to badly? Heavy losses in long term can cost you war. Reason for it simple at some point you can become short on prestige and that might cost you battle that loses the war.


Some might think what's point to doing all this? Well yeah could just reload and based on new info win. True but then you never learn change tactics and do things in best way. What you will do is simply do as you always do. Also Panzer Corps 2 will come out with random maps and better AI so reloading won't produce same map or same enemy placement or units so learn read map now. Another point is depending how you play map will change dynamics which keeps it playing fun for longer.

Anyone with feed back welcome might missed ideas or not thought of things. Feed backs good tool for learning I am still learning.

[Stephen1024]

Goose maybe now you can write me a collection of tips and tricks for multiplayer haha. I am good at campaigns of single player but your much better at multiplayer.

@Stephan1024: let's bring this thread back up again, let's see what can be added!

I think one thing could be about knowing/reading the map?

Maybe anything form the big MP tournament?!

Added all I can think of will be, interesting get feed back from Goose and some of the other hardcore players
Especially with panzer corps 2 in pipeline.
As said I am really good on single player but don't know tricks to multiplayer.

[PeteMitchell]

Wow, I think this is an impressive list and probably these best practices apply to both, AI and MP I would say...
Being able to pull this off just like that... Chapeau!