***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941

[Yrfin]

15 minutes for ONE AI turn ?

Yes.
3 minutes for AI + 12 minutes for animations and delays beetwen attacks.
About 450 units for AI side. And every AI unit participates in the attack, and not just waiting.

Even with the switched-off animation (instead of "don't show attack") 3 minutes it too long. Unplayable, IMHO.
Optimization is necessary, i think.

[Intenso82]

Even with the switched-off animation (instead of "don't show attack") 3 minutes it too long. Unplayable, IMHO.
Optimization is necessary, i think.

This is very individual.
For me it is quite playable. I played at least 10-15 times in different versions of the mod. And if you really like global strategies, you quickly get used to the size of the map, and the number of units.
Nevertheless, the turn does not take more than in the unreleased mod Chris10.

Mods of global size, it's like a completely different game based on the PZC engine.
And this mod does not hurt to play you in the classic small size scenarios, with all their pros and cons.
Good luck!

[Yrfin]

And if you really like global strategies, you quickly get used to the size of the map, and the number of units.

I'd like global strategies, big size of the map and the big number of units.
But I have stopped playing a Civ V coz too long time of turns at late stage of game.

[mc261209]

The ideal would be to implement some species of system to choose whether or not to accompany the AI shift.
Many mobile strategy games have this system.

[Intenso82]

But I have stopped playing a Civ V coz too long time of turns at late stage of game.

I understand you in what you say about Civilization. But there is expansion.
But Here we have another system of such a large number of units only at the peak.
Then by battles you have the opportunity to reduce the number of enemy units
It is worth comparing such games with Gary Grigsby's "War in the East", there is a similar scale and the number of units. Where the computer one turn for Germany takes about 20 minutes.
But in PZC this is a less and simpler UI

The ideal would be to implement some species of system to choose whether or not to accompany the AI shift.
Many mobile strategy games have this system.

What is meant?

[mc261209]

I'm not criticizing the time of AI's turn, I know full well that it's time consuming even in several games of this size.
The suggestion I gave was to try to help people complain about having to wait 15 minutes.
I really like your mod and want to play more than 20 shifts, I'm really looking forward to the final version.

[hugh2711]

I downloaded your mod and tried to play it.
I normally play mods by (in a complete copy of my normal panzer corps installation) overwriting the files in the panzer corps directory. I play battlefield europe and soviet storm by this method no problem. I do not use jgme (as it always stuffs my PzC installation and I am not prepared to spend hours reinstalling and yes I have followed every set of instuctions available with the same negative result so I dont use it).
I regret to say using my usual method I find your mod demo crashes every time.
I find it under the 'custom' scenarios. It does actually load the map but then it crashes.
I would really love to play your mod.
Any suggestions?. Thanks

[Intenso82]

I really like your mod and want to play more than 20 shifts, I'm really looking forward to the final version.

Do you all work normal?
English version? Steam or standalone?

I find your mod demo crashes every time.

Any suggestions?. Thanks

English localization? Are you using Steam or standalone version? 1.3 or lower?

I find your mod demo crashes every time.
I find it under the 'custom' scenarios.

Do you see this picture in the list of campaigns?
Why use Custom scenarios?

[hugh2711]

No i did not see that picture at all.
And it is not in the list of (user made or otherwise) campaigns.
I am just doing the same as with soviet storm and battlefield europe. I am using vers. 1.30
thanks

OOOOOPs sorry please ignore the above. I fiddled around a bit more and seem to have it working now. I am not sure how
looks very nice. will post when played. Thank you and i am sorry to waste your time.

[Intenso82]

OOOOOPs sorry please ignore the above. I fiddled around a bit more and seem to have it working now. I am not sure how
looks very nice. will post when played. Thank you and i am sorry to waste your time.

Happy for you
On the contrary. It is useful to learn to solve such issues.
Maybe you used a different language than English?

By the way, I think this is the first mod that supports two languages: Eng. and Rus.
But if you do not understand the event messages in the English version.
Write to me, let's try to improve the translation together

[hugh2711]

Just had a quick go for the first time.
I have got to say I liked it very much.
I love the huge map, I dont care how long it takes to do one turn and i am sure anyone who likes these big maps doesnt really care as; you do a turn, it takes at least half an hour then you go away and do something else and come back:-)
Two things surprised me
1) Dedicated fighters attacking 'defenceless' observation aircraft take losses, seems a bit strange.
2) upgrading from polikarpov 18 to 24 costs 270, the full price of a new aircraft? much too high.
Also I cant seem to make my subs switcheable (as in battlefield europe) is this deliberate.
thanks for your great work.

[Intenso82]

then you go away and do something else and come back:-)

But if you do not like watching how the computer goes (for example, I'm interesting to see how the AI works) or if your want to speed up something like I already wrote, you can turn off in the settings:
- Show opponent moves
- Show opponent attack

1) Dedicated fighters attacking 'defenceless' observation aircraft take losses, seems a bit strange.

I have already reduced the strength for reconnaissance aircraft.
For example Hs 126 has [-1] AA, Fw 189A [-2] AA. Ju 86P has [0] AA and only Ju 88D has [-6] AA like usual bomber unit.

Here it is necessary to take into account that the air recon unit is a collective image.
In reconnaissance aviation there were also fighters and various bombers with good defensive weapons.
Also shoot down a twin-engine aircraft is not an easy task, especially on obsolete aircraft.
Many pilots did not like to attack the bombers, it's a risky deal.

2) upgrading from polikarpov 18 to 24 costs 270, the full price of a new aircraft? much too high.

This is done for one reason.
Otherwise, the player will upgrade all I16 to I16P for 20 prestige in 1-2 turns.
It does not look like historical.
As far as I know, I16 was used until September 1942, and after too, but in small quantities.
But for I15bis there is a series of an upgrade to I153.

In future, а good strategy is to upgrade the oldest aircraft to the newest ones.
Even now I'm thinking about the whole tree of upgrades for all the years.

Also I cant seem to make my subs switcheable (as in battlefield europe) is this deliberate.

Now, naval units have been added to the Soviets in historical numbers.
But so far there is no enemy naval, except for one fleet.
I'm still thinking how to do low-intensity sea battles.

thanks for your great work.

Thank you for your words

[Intenso82]

I really like your mod and want to play more than 20 shifts, I'm really looking forward to the final version.

Did you play 20 turns?
What are the results?

I would be interested to see the last turn save.
Here or in a PM.

[Yrfin]

Im absolutely sure, what Intenso82 made a Great Mod with new ideas, units and features. MUST PLAY for all who love a Big Scale battelfields.

But Im thinking about how decrease a time for drinking beer between turns
1. Make light version efx (without animation and move sounds). Its better then switch off atack&movements.
2. Optimize AI movement. Why need to move all 450 units in one turn ? May be to move them part by part (150+150+150) in few turns ?

[Intenso82]

1. Make light version efx (without animation and move sounds). Its better then switch off atack&movements.

It can be tried. But this is not very happy players when they will make a turn without sounds and animations.
But I think the main delay is when the results of the battle are shown.
When the intensity of fighting decreases, and more units moves, the turn time also decreases.
Because the number of targets for an attack is reduced.

I hope in PZC2 will have a delay slider for animation, like in the OOB.

2. Optimize AI movement. Why need to move all 450 units in one turn ? May be to move them part by part (150+150+150) in few turns ?

Here, AI decides how to move.
And we do not have the ability to make orders for a group of units.
Still, Ai need a good speed, he can not skip turns, even this is Blitzkrieg

[Yrfin]

1. Make light version efx (without animation and move sounds). Its better then switch off atack&movements.

It can be tried. But this is not very happy players when they will make a turn without sounds and animations.

I mean additional light version. Players can choose beetween versions.

2. Optimize AI movement. Why need to move all 450 units in one turn ? May be to move them part by part (150+150+150) in few turns ?

Here, AI decides how to move.
And we do not have the ability to make orders for a group of units.

Are you used all 32 zone ?

[Intenso82]

Are you used all 32 zone ?

Not yet. But most yes.
The scenario is not finished yet. And the other will be involved later.

[Intenso82]

Q&A section added.

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 43#p641227

[hugh2711]

Thank you for this excellent mod, I am sure it will turn out to be a real classic. I wonder if you would like a few comments?. I have just finished a runthrough of the first 20 turns. I enjoyed it very much. My strategy was; trade units for time and space - the classical russian defence. leading to a mass slaughter of lots of units, how historical!. I enjoyed the way the map is so big that although you can delay and block, it is so big the enemy can always go around. (in akkulas excellent soviet storm you can block the enemy much quicker by blocking all the choke points quickly), here it feels more realistic.
However the size does pose a problem in that: by turn 20 I had most of finland as you just cant defend that big. I also had large parts of rumania/hungry. If I had wanted i could have penetrated right into germany.

1) There seems to be too many strategic bombers (and they are not very effective), in the end i started using them for emeny target practice to run the enemy out of ammo.
2) There seems to be not eough t34's? I had to upgrade (using all that conqured victory hex prestige) the upgradable tanks to t34's to slow the enemy steam roller - not even stop them.
3) The switcheable aircraft = too complex and redundant?, I think it reminds me of another strategy game, i cant remember the name of. I think the great distance to travel from production shouls be reflected in the unit stats as should the different types of attack.
4) no problem with too many units at first doesnt matter as alot die quickly anyway after the first few turns.
5) There are too many parachutists (or they can travel too far?) as with that many functioning ones if you wanted you could take over large parts of enemy territory quickly with a sneak attack.
I dont know if it was just reflected in the fact it was just the first 20 turns but it seemed all the enemy units were ridiculously strong compared to the russians, very hard to do any damage , unless they were on a river.

Do you want me to send you a save of my final turn? how can i do it?, it is 6MB in size or a replay? i saved one but dont know wether it worked.

[Intenso82]

Thank you for this excellent mod, I am sure it will turn out to be a real classic.

I'm glad to hear that.

My strategy was; trade units for time and space - the classical russian defence. leading to a mass slaughter of lots of units, how historical!

I'm interested in reading about any strategies or tactical solutions that players use.

However the size does pose a problem in that: by turn 20 I had most of finland as you just cant defend that big. I also had large parts of rumania/hungry. If I had wanted i could have penetrated right into germany.

Yes, here I need last turn save to see.
That's why I posted a demo-version for 20 turns to see what needs to be balanced on early stage before moving to next point.

And then I plan to add mobilization for the Soviets and reinforcements for the Germans and also the defense of Moscow.
Including the good sugestion of McGuba, in which, German units will move from Germany to the front, thereby not allowing to player to capture the flags.

1) There seems to be too many strategic bombers

I can not help it, it's historical quantities.
Therefore, they are not very effective.
But I made sure that the obsolete airplanes did not have the possibility of replenishment.
With the exception of DB-3F(Il-4) which will also be available for upgrade later.

and they are not very effective

It's true, but it's like see.
If the aircraft does damage to 1, this is 1000 people. Is this small?
In the future, there will be stat changes. I think it will be possible to find a balance.

in the end i started using them for emeny target practice to run the enemy out of ammo

Yes, this is good use, especially for bombing transports.

2) There seems to be not eough t34's? I had to upgrade (using all that conqured victory hex prestige) the upgradable tanks to t34's to slow the enemy steam roller - not even stop them.

And how many tanks did you upgrade to T34?
In the future, some tanks will be added as reinforcements. But which one should be determined from the game.

In the end, I would like to make a system in which there will not be one correct answer.

The player does not have a possibility of purchases, but there is a wide choice in actions.
Is it worth it to spend prestige on upgrading the T34 tanks?
Or spend on upgrading old planes to modern ones?
Or maybe instead you have to upgrade units with trait NOREPLACE?
After all, if you do not upgrade the unit with the Noreplace. And he will lost. You can not reform it later. In the next scenarios, it does not appear. And you will lose it forever.
It's up to the player to decide
I wrote about the use of the option - reforms unit. In the future, it will need very much.
The player will decide which units to restore and use.

After all, in the future, these decisions can affect the game.
In addition, the player must solve other problems.
For example transport logistic

Is it worth move heavy artillery 203mm B4 into the battle which has Noreplace trait.
Or take them to the rear? And use it in later stages of the war?
Is it worth it to upgrade the obsolete artillery with the Noreplace to the cheap mortars with the trait noupgrade? Or wait when there is enough prestige for expensive artillery. Who knows

I do not have the right answers to all the questions, but I hope the Players will have the answers and they will share with us.

3) The switcheable aircraft = too complex and redundant?, I think it reminds me of another strategy game, i cant remember the name of. I think the great distance to travel from production shouls be reflected in the unit stats as should the different types of attack.

Not only for movements from the rear to the front, but also between the fronts, and also from the front to the rear.
In the future, I will add a few game mechanics who will use the rear space.

Explain more precisely what do you mean?
Instead of Air transport use multi-switch unit?

5) There are too many parachutists (or they can travel too far?) as with that many functioning ones if you wanted you could take over large parts of enemy territory quickly with a sneak attack.

I think we will find a balance.
Parachutists were used for their intended purpose only a few times.
I will reduce the number of transport aircraft to 1.

I dont know if it was just reflected in the fact it was just the first 20 turns but it seemed all the enemy units were ridiculously strong compared to the russians, very hard to do any damage , unless they were on a river.

I can not say that this is 100% reliable data. No one knows the truthful numbers completely. But there is also a loss ratio of 1 to 5.
But we must add to this the axis allies. And the ratio will be less.
http://chris-intel-corner.blogspot.ru/2 ... front.html

I have made real quantity of units from both sides.
And then I have tried to achieve similar time (numbers of the turn) capture of the cities by Germans.
Other is AI and actions of the player
For a 49-turn version, I killed more than 140 enemy units.
I'm very average player.

Do you want me to send you a save of my final turn? how can i do it?, it is 6MB in size or a replay? i saved one but dont know wether it worked.

Therefore I need last turn saves of ALL players who has passed this demo.
Besides it isn't important with what result, it's important to save yourself, so that i can balance the mod and improve AI.

You can put SAVES on the file sharing service and send a link here or me in the PM.
Thanks.