Overstrength: Which units and why?

[HjalfnarFeuerwolf]

Hey guys!

I just noticed how good certain units get with overstrength. My question is, on which units would you use max overstrength, and which are not worth it in your eyes? For example I am not sure if I should use max overstrength on artillery or heavy bombers. On infantry though I think it is a no-brainer (cheap and very useful).

Oh and on top of that...how do you see if your strength is too high, enabling the soft cap? It always stays on 100% in the deployment screen and during the battle suddenly it is 52%.

[rubyjuno]

There have been a number of discussions on the subject of over-strength in the past, so you could perform a search on this forum and read various opinions on it if you wished. There are also discussions on prestige management which is a related subject and worth reading. Of course, not everyone has the same opinion, but here is mine...

I've learned through experience that spending valuable prestige to over-strengthen units that are most likely to suffer casualties (front line units such as infantry, armour and fighters) is an expensive business as all that costly over-strength is gone after an attack or two. The only exception to this is my SE units as these are "free" to deploy (and therefore very valuable) and I often over-strength these to protect them. Other than that, artillery and strategic bombers are good units to over-strength as they are less likely to suffer casualties (in theory, if you protect them properly) so all that prestige is not wasted.

[TSPC37730]

For the most part, I agree with rubyjuno. I try to overstrength only units that hopefully won't take damage as the loss is costly. For me & my play style, this normally includes artillery & AA units - and in some cases strategic bombers. It's all about conserving prestige. Once you get to the later years of the war, the replacement cost for newer tanks and fighters really starts to climb. If your prestige gets too low at some point the game becomes unplayable. Or at least unwinnable.

I don't really know a way of seeing if the soft cap is hurting you except for mousing over your prestige counter. But by then it's too late. One thing you could try would to be leave some slots "undeployed" at the start of the scenario. If you're still at 100% you could deploy units one by one until you see the soft cap starting to kick in. Limiting your overstrength will also help as those units are far more expensive. Good luck!

[dalfrede]

First data, from an old post that I saved as a text file for reference.

"
11 strength cost you the Regular Price of 1 Unit (EG a 300 Prestige (costs for Transports included) unit cost you 30 Prestige)
12 strength cost you 150% of the Regular Price (for the 300 Prestige Unit example this 45 Prestige)
13 strength cost you 200% of the Regular Price (so that's 60 Prestige for our Example)
14 strength cost you 250% of the Regular Price (now we are at 75 Prestige)
15 strength cost you 300% of the Regular Price (which means 90 Prestige)
Note the Total Cost for a 5 Overstrength Unit is exactly the same as for the Regular 10 strength Unit so a 15
strengther costs you 600 Prestige for our Example. Or in modified Game Show Terms "The Price is Twice !"
"

So turning it up to 11 is the same cost as an in scenario replacement, a reasonable deal.
SoftCap starts at 400 a slot.
Note, when a scenario gives you a free core unit your number of core slots does not increase, so your soft cap planning gets hosed.
Note 2 , SdKfz 250/1 at 200pp is more expensive than the infantry it is carrying. I use Nico's equip mod and buy horse transport [15pp] if any.

[huckc]

It depends!

For defensive scenarios, it'll often be more optimal to over-strengthen front-line troops so that the AI will refuse to attack them despite being the aggressors. Also it's more likely that your rear artillery will take damage due to being enveloped and in spotting/targeting range. There also tends to be more enemy air power on these scenarios which try to hit your artillery.

Then for offensive scenarios my rule of thumb is to over-strengthen artillery, as they will be less likely to take damage and are crucial in suppressing entrenched enemy units. Their strength can also allow tanks to capture city hexes without enemy infantry wanting to attack them and suffer the defensive barrage. This is especially useful on Manstein (+5 enemy strength) where infantry become less appropriate to take cities due to the over-strengthened enemy artillery.

So in general:
Defense = over-strengthen front-line units
Offense = over-strengthen artillery

Ideally though, no over-strength at all due to the soft-cap.

[hugh2711]

A quick point: when the soft cap is calculated; if a unit is overstrengthed, then when calculating the reduction due to the soft cap it is based on the units new overstregthed value - NOT the origional bought price. For this reason it is NOT worth overstrengthening alot of units as it can get ridiculously expensive overstrengthening ordinary units. However 1) since overstrengthening gives more 'shots' it IS worth overstrengthening some. Also 2) SE units do NOT count toward the soft cap. so it makes sense to have ALL your se units as expensive tanks and overstrengthed.

nominal soft cap=400

e.g. ordinary grenadier price 167, with cheap transport 217, with expensive transport 367, overstrengthed to 12= 200, 272, 460[approx]
ordinary tiger = 700 overstregthed to 12 =870 ish
SE tiger = 700 overstrength to 15 = 0 (ZERO) for soft cap purposes.
so: have all SE units as tanks (disband infantry) overstrength SE units
this way you minimise losses and maximise income.

In the grand campaign you shouldnt have to worry about the soft cap untill about gc42

To physically see when the soft cap is kicking in: when deploying units before a scenario, in verion 1.30 onwards if you hold the curser over the 5 digit prestige readout at the top right hand of the screen it should 'realtime' tell you where you stand with the softcap i.e. wether it is biting. It will usually show in the last few units deployed!. That is a good time to experiment deploying cheaper units where possible. Of course as the technology gets more complex on both sides, the tasks require more expensive units. In that respect the game models history quite well.

[captainjack]

I don't use soft cap but usually play on reduced prestige so I need to be selective about overstrength.

Strategic bombers are more effective for suppression and neutralisation when overstrength so are usually worth the cost, especially if they have defence heroes.
I usually use overstrength on AA as it is more of a deterrent and is more effective when the enemy does attack so that tends to pay off.
For artillery it pays to check ROF. Generally overstrength on guns has more value when ROF is 100% or more (typically 105mm and smaller and rockets) and less when under 80%.

Most other units get 1 overstrength unless there's a special reason. Special reasons include good attack or defence hero; pioneers for mine clearing (since you always lose a point why overstrength?) or just as good at 10 as otherwise (most recon and bridgies).

[proline]

For artillery it pays to check ROF. Generally overstrength on guns has more value when ROF is 100% or more (typically 105mm and smaller and rockets) and less when under 80%.

You neglected to mention that shots = RoF * strength rounded DOWN. This means that a RoF 7 arty still only gets 7 shots at strength 11. So if you are going to over strength, it makes since to go to 12 to get an 8th shot, or 13 to get 9 shots.

[HjalfnarFeuerwolf]

Ok, it seems there is far more to this than simply "more points = more power". xD Ok, I'll have to dig into that...thank you so much for the answers. I am just playing the 42 DLC in a LP series and the Red Army is slowly getting a worthy opponent.

[goose_2]

you definitely need prestige much later
I am in Manstein playthrough (all enemy has 5 extra strength)
1943 building up to Prohkorovka with about 80k in prestige.

My goal is to continue to maintain somewhere around this total into my 1944 upgrades needed, and then for the paid that comes in 1945 that just seems will be overwhelming and will necessitate max OS, where as I limit it to Bombers, arty, and AA units...maybe 1 extra for my SE Tigers.

[TSPC37730]

My goal is to continue to maintain somewhere around this total into my 1944 upgrades needed, and then for the paid that comes in 1945 that just seems will be overwhelming and will necessitate max OS, where as I limit it to Bombers, arty, and AA units...maybe 1 extra for my SE Tigers.

I wish you all the best in these endeavors. But, I really don't see how. With sticker prices of 703 for a new Tiger 1 & 600+ for Panthers, as well as inflated prices for just about everything else, it seems that '43 is the turning point. My guess is that things will turn even for you. The biggest question is how sharply will it turn?

With your success in farming prestige through forced surrenders, you're probably one person who might have a chance. Good luck!

[captainjack]

You neglected to mention that shots = RoF * strength rounded DOWN.

Quite true. It's another reason why with RoF 100% or more you get what you pay for but if RoF is <100% you don't always get what you pay for.
Of course, there are always exceptions - my +1 range +3 Attack 17cm gets full overstrength despite the limitations of 80% RoF because it is intended to break things from a long way away (I use Nico's equipment file where the 17cm has base range 4) and I am willing to risk the prestige to hit a bit harder. It also happens to make it easier to spot amongst the other 17cm guns which all have 10 strength.