Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[PeteMitchell]

Did you already finished BE at least one time? I do not feel it that way...
Let's start first the game, beat it. Make a DV, than if you need challenge and diversity, try to beat it with Rommel difficulty, when you made than try to make a DV under 61 turns. If you want still new chaellenges, try the pre-set saves. And finally try the multiplayer version.
I play this mod since about 8 years and it gives me still new challenges and fun with the existing options. (Now with multi.)

BE is not a casual game, it tries to simulate history as far as it is possible. Also the PzC engine has it's limitations, it is not HOI, or other, diplomatic-related ww2 game.

By the way, Uhu and I started a multiplayer game as well, I am a bit delayed due to my recent trip but we have started!
Hopefully, we can share some observations soon as well ...

[oladelmar]

Hi y'all, and congratulations on a new release McGuba! I can feel my brain already beginning to divide itself into neat little hexes... %-D

I hereby challenge you ALL to a multiplayer game, please PM me or make your acceptance of the challenge publicly, first come first served! To give you an idea of who you're taking on, I'd say my greatest SP achievement is a DV by turn 85(dice chess, 3-4 saves per turn at difficulty somewhat below Field Marshal but with a few self-imposed house rules).

I love this mod, but have never considered it more than an approximation of historical plausibility, mainly due to game engine limitations; naval invasions are way too simple, no logistics modelling, etc. I think one of McGuba's main challenge has been to make the mod difficult enough without introducing ridiculousness, and a lot of the restrictions on player flexibility are there simply because they make the game harder, as you're forced to follow a somewhat predictable path, and this compensates for the abysmal choices done by the AI.

That being said, I'd love to see some high-level prestige costing decisions intruduced, like getting the opportunity to pay for prestige to increase synthetic fuel production(i.e. not taking the gamble that the Wehrmacht will be able to capture oil fields), or paying prestige for increased focus on a particular branch of the armed forces(ships, planes or tanks).

[Intenso82]

By the way, Uhu and I started a multiplayer game as well, I am a bit delayed due to my recent trip but we have started!
Hopefully, we can share some observations soon as well ...

Good news! Will there be an AAR?
I know about the game of Uhu and Keen.
And which side are you playing for? Or its a pair game?

[PeteMitchell]

By the way, Uhu and I started a multiplayer game as well, I am a bit delayed due to my recent trip but we have started!
Hopefully, we can share some observations soon as well ...

Good news! Will there be an AAR?
I know about the game of Uhu and Keen.
And which side are you playing for? Or its a pair game?

Thanks! AAR could be a good idea but we are not there yet... I was even too busy to play much yet...
Uhu started as Axis, I am playing Allies... maybe we change sides later, not sure yet...

[Intenso82]

Thanks! AAR could be a good idea but we are not there yet... I was even too busy to play much yet...
Uhu started as Axis, I am playing Allies... maybe we change sides later, not sure yet...

Maybe someday it's worth making a result board among multiplayer players. But it seems I already wrote about this
Then people will be able to see who finished the game and find their next opponent.

[PeteMitchell]

Thanks! AAR could be a good idea but we are not there yet... I was even too busy to play much yet...
Uhu started as Axis, I am playing Allies... maybe we change sides later, not sure yet...

Maybe someday it's worth making a result board among multiplayer players. But it seems I already wrote about this
Then people will be able to see who finished the game and find their next opponent.

I like the idea! Maybe even worth a separate forum thread, wanna start it?)

[Intenso82]

Thanks! AAR could be a good idea but we are not there yet... I was even too busy to play much yet...
Uhu started as Axis, I am playing Allies... maybe we change sides later, not sure yet...

Maybe someday it's worth making a result board among multiplayer players. But it seems I already wrote about this
Then people will be able to see who finished the game and find their next opponent.

I like the idea! Maybe even worth a separate forum thread, wanna start it?)

I don’t know, maybe just in Google Doc.
And add the link to the topic header. However, it is up to MсGuba to decide.

[Uhu]

We finished with Keen the 2nd round of mutiplayer. I was again with the Axis. I made much better results as in the first battle (or less mistakes... ), but still - Berlin was about 1-2 turn to be captured at turn 62. Probably I could last still a few turns, until all core cities would have been captured, but we agreed to end the war.
- Western Europe and Norwegen was (yet...) held
- Wien was already captured
- Italy was about to be captured by the Allies
- The Balkan was lost
- Tunisia was held and the battle for Tunis and the region was a hard earned, but victory for the Axis!
- On the other hand, Cairo, Alexandria and Tobruk were recaptured by the Allies...

So beware of this guy, he is really dangerous!!

On the other hand, I learned a lot of things, so I'm eager to try out, how it would work with other Generals. I hope, we can soon start the war with PeteMitchell_2
I also started to play a multi game with myself, playing both sides as best as I can. I recommend to everyone this method, before starting a real multi, because you can learn a lot of from the other side!
I also recommend to play multi games via hotseat mode and sending each other the saves. It is much more comfortable, dice chess is possible and you can always look at your last stand, no need to make screenshots at every turn. Of course, honesty is needed without cheating, but which armchair general would do such things?

After so many years of development, testing and playing, this mode is simply amazing! It takes to the limit of the PzC. What missing are a complex support system and a more complex invasion system. Maybe OOB has the potential to have it - nice graphics and a more complex supply system.

By the way: where is McGuba...?

[PeteMitchell]

Sorry Uhu, I just sent you my first turn... I am available to play from now on...

Also if anyone else wants to play (e.g. oladelmar, Keen?), I would be very happy to practice some more BE MP (also in parallel) as I expect Uhu to win

[PeteMitchell]

Hi y'all, and congratulations on a new release McGuba! I can feel my brain already beginning to divide itself into neat little hexes... %-D

I hereby challenge you ALL to a multiplayer game, please PM me or make your acceptance of the challenge publicly, first come first served! To give you an idea of who you're taking on, I'd say my greatest SP achievement is a DV by turn 85(dice chess, 3-4 saves per turn at difficulty somewhat below Field Marshal but with a few self-imposed house rules).

I love this mod, but have never considered it more than an approximation of historical plausibility, mainly due to game engine limitations; naval invasions are way too simple, no logistics modelling, etc. I think one of McGuba's main challenge has been to make the mod difficult enough without introducing ridiculousness, and a lot of the restrictions on player flexibility are there simply because they make the game harder, as you're forced to follow a somewhat predictable path, and this compensates for the abysmal choices done by the AI.

That being said, I'd love to see some high-level prestige costing decisions intruduced, like getting the opportunity to pay for prestige to increase synthetic fuel production(i.e. not taking the gamble that the Wehrmacht will be able to capture oil fields), or paying prestige for increased focus on a particular branch of the armed forces(ships, planes or tanks).

Hi oladelmar, I am available if you still like to play...

[PeteMitchell]

Just started a single player BE 2.0 campaign as well and finished the first Poland scenario, very nice as usual!

[McGuba]

Hi y'all, and congratulations on a new release McGuba! I can feel my brain already beginning to divide itself into neat little hexes... %-D

Hi, and thanks!

I hereby challenge you ALL to a multiplayer game, please PM me or make your acceptance of the challenge publicly, first come first served!

Yes, it would be nice to see some more multiplayer games to gain more feedback for possible improvements and further balancing.

I love this mod, but have never considered it more than an approximation of historical plausibility, mainly due to game engine limitations; naval invasions are way too simple, no logistics modelling, etc.

On the other hand since the game engine is fairly simple it makes it more fun to play as the player does not have to focus on too many things. It is easy to get lost in the details and in reality not one general was responsible for everything. In this mod I did add a lot of addtional complexity, though. Maybe a bit too much already.

I think one of McGuba's main challenge has been to make the mod difficult enough without introducing ridiculousness, and a lot of the restrictions on player flexibility are there simply because they make the game harder, as you're forced to follow a somewhat predictable path, and this compensates for the abysmal choices done by the AI.

True, but some of the restrictions were added not to make it more difficult but to better simulate the historical circumstances, i.e. Axis units losing strength points in the first winter or the fuel crisis.

That being said, I'd love to see some high-level prestige costing decisions intruduced, like getting the opportunity to pay for prestige to increase synthetic fuel production(i.e. not taking the gamble that the Wehrmacht will be able to capture oil fields), or paying prestige for increased focus on a particular branch of the armed forces(ships, planes or tanks).

Yes, it is possible to add some of these but that would require further research and testing as it would significantly affect the current balance. Like I said I am a bit hesitant to add even more complexity.

Maybe someday it's worth making a result board among multiplayer players. But it seems I already wrote about this
Then people will be able to see who finished the game and find their next opponent.

I like the idea! Maybe even worth a separate forum thread, wanna start it?)

I don’t know, maybe just in Google Doc.
And add the link to the topic header. However, it is up to MсGuba to decide.

Yes, sure, I support this, it would be nice to see more multiplayer games, whatever it takes.

We finished with Keen the 2nd round of mutiplayer. I was again with the Axis.

It would be nice to learn some more details, AAR, screenshots, etc. if possible. Maybe suggestions for further balancing.

It looks like the Axis was defeated earlier than in my games with Intenso. If I remember well, all of Germany was captured in like turn 85/95 in our two games. I guess in your game it would have taken another 8-10 turns and then you would have finished like turn 72. Maybe Germany needs even more support in the late war game if the Axis player does not manage to defeat any of the main opponents.

[PeteMitchell]

The Norway scenario is also really nice (even nicer now in its new form)... no issues at all))

Would still be wonderful to have the Spanish Civil War of 1936 as a (small) training camp as well... just to keep the idea out there...

[PeteMitchell]

Little reporting,

in v 1.8 I was able to close Kiev pocket and take Moscow before winter, in v 1.9 able to close Kiev but reached only outskirts of Moscow with view on soviet tanks...

My original intention was to face the player with a real choice so that not both of those can be accomplished. It is true that in this latest version it is more emphasized. Although I did not try, I believe it is still possible to capture at least the Kremlin hex by turn 10-11, but only if there is a very determined advance and it might only be possible with a recon unit with recon movement. But it might cost the player the Kiev encirclement, more so as the time limit for the Kiev encirclement has been reduced squentially: in "realistic" the Soviet forces in the pocket get their fuel back and activate in turn 9-10, in "medium" in turn 11-12 and in "easy" and "muliplayer" in turn 12-13. (In our current multiplayer game with Intenso I could only close the pocket in turn 12 - just in time, but could not get very close to Moscow.) Thus especially in "realistic" difficulty the player has to hurry to encircle Kiev before they would activate and counter-attack, but also has to hurry to reach Moscow. Doing both is very difficult, and I think it has to be.

So regarding the Kiev encirclement and my current MP game with Uhu, I just looked at the editor and it seems the Kiev encirclement in MP is theoretically possible until including turn 15, is this correct? Wow...

[PeteMitchell]

I like the idea! Maybe even worth a separate forum thread, wanna start it?)

I don’t know, maybe just in Google Doc.
And add the link to the topic header. However, it is up to MсGuba to decide.

Yes, sure, I support this, it would be nice to see more multiplayer games, whatever it takes.

@Intenso82: how did you envision this result board among multiplayer players to look like?

[Uhu]

So regarding the Kiev encirclement and my current MP game with Uhu, I just looked at the editor and it seems the Kiev encirclement in MP is theoretically possible until including turn 15, is this correct? Wow...

Hmm...good to know that I still have time for it!

[Uhu]

With Pete we play via hotseat the multi. I recommend it to eveybody, because:
- You are not bound to working Slitherine server
- You can always look at your stand (last save), no need to make screenshots
- You can use dice chess
It needs a little more work to send every turn your save to the other player, but it worths. It is better tovsend our turn, because than the other player can see his nice news with pic. Of course honesty is a must, because cheat and unlimited reloads are existing (but should nit be used because what sense would it bring...?)

We also agreed in some house rules regardind paradrop use and not allowing direct complete air encirclement, becausr it is so unrealistic.

[McGuba]

The Norway scenario is also really nice (even nicer now in its new form)... no issues at all))

Would still be wonderful to have the Spanish Civil War of 1936 as a (small) training camp as well... just to keep the idea out there...

Yes, sure, but it is not a priority at the moment.

Maybe some time later.

So regarding the Kiev encirclement and my current MP game with Uhu, I just looked at the editor and it seems the Kiev encirclement in MP is theoretically possible until including turn 15, is this correct? Wow...

Hmm...good to know that I still have time for it!

Not exactly. Currently Soviet units lose all their fuel in each turn until the beginning of Axis turn 9. Then in turn 10 the Soviet units at Kiev finally get back their fuel I guess, and then they can move out/escape/counter attack. However, if the Axis side can still close the encirclement by turn 15 by reaching all the given hexes, Soviet units will surrender there if they are within the encirlement at that time. At least as far as I remember.

I think it is quite possible to encircle Kiev by turn 9, but it may just cost the much needed momentum that would be needed to reach Moscow.

[PeteMitchell]

With Pete we play via hotseat the multi. I recommend it to eveybody, because:
- You are not bound to working Slitherine server
- You can always look at your stand (last save), no need to make screenshots
- You can use dice chess
It needs a little more work to send every turn your save to the other player, but it worths. It is better tovsend our turn, because than the other player can see his nice news with pic. Of course honesty is a must, because cheat and unlimited reloads are existing (but should nit be used because what sense would it bring...?)

We also agreed in some house rules regardind paradrop use and not allowing direct complete air encirclement, becausr it is so unrealistic.

Yes, (as discussed) playing MP via hotseat has many important advantages... however, I would also like to try it via the server at one time, might be a more "authentic" MP experience, too...

[PeteMitchell]

So regarding the Kiev encirclement and my current MP game with Uhu, I just looked at the editor and it seems the Kiev encirclement in MP is theoretically possible until including turn 15, is this correct? Wow...

Hmm...good to know that I still have time for it!

Not exactly. Currently Soviet units lose all their fuel in each turn until the beginning of Axis turn 9. Then in turn 10 the Soviet units at Kiev finally get back their fuel I guess, and then they can move out/escape/counter attack. However, if the Axis side can still close the encirclement by turn 15 by reaching all the given hexes, Soviet units will surrender there if they are within the encirlement at that time. At least as far as I remember.

I think it is quite possible to encircle Kiev by turn 9, but it may just cost the much needed momentum that would be needed to reach Moscow.

Yes, this seems correct... Thanks!