For Goodness Sake Release the Game

[proline]

Throughout this process, Slitherine has shown questionable judgement in marketing the game. They initially announced it with a Wargamer interview that was full of major errors. They emphasized 3D over gameplay. They put beta testers under NDA. They let an ignoramus YouTuber be the first to post a video playthrough.

And now, here we are, with millions of people out of school on lockdown waiting for something to do, and Slitherine sits. Does Disney sit? Of course not, they've released Frozen 2 and lots of new content early on Disney's streaming service. Why, oh why, isn't Slitherine taking advantage of the opportunity to get players interested in this game?

[Edmon]

Throughout this process, Slitherine has shown questionable judgement in marketing the game. They initially announced it with a Wargamer interview that was full of major errors. They emphasized 3D over gameplay. They put beta testers under NDA. They let an ignoramus YouTuber be the first to post a video playthrough.

And now, here we are, with millions of people out of school on lockdown waiting for something to do, and Slitherine sits. Does Disney sit? Of course not, they've released Frozen 2 and lots of new content early on Disney's streaming service. Why, oh why, isn't Slitherine taking advantage of the opportunity to get players interested in this game?

To which youtuber might you be referring? They gave access to all youtubers at the same time, 5 days early. Not everyone who is on youtube is ignorant. I myself have beaten Panzer Corps 1 on Rommel, without losing a single unit and only play on the hardest difficulties when it comes to TBS. It is very good of them to reach out to all the little youtubers (though you wouldn't believe how hard it actually is to get a loyal base of more than a few hundred these days) because it means they reach the greatest number of people and thus build the biggest possible community.

There are problems with breaking release dates. The reasoning behind it is quite complex, but it has to do with the various links in the chain (dev, publisher, retailer) all needing to be on the same page and without anyone being able to "sell" the product before anyone else. Once a date is set, changing it is a monumental task and generally speaking it isn't worth doing when there are only a few days to go until the launch date.

DIsney can do as it pleases because it is the dev, the publisher and the retailer... this is not the case here.

I think their marketing strategy is wise, everyone is talking about the game right now and wanting to get it, but in terms of the release date... there may be nothing they are free to actually do.

[proline]

To which youtuber might you be referring? They gave access to all youtubers at the same time, 5 days early. Not everyone who is on youtube is ignorant. I myself have beaten Panzer Corps 1 on Rommel

Obviously I wasn't talking about you or all YouTubers. They gave an exclusive to that Apollo guy at the release date event and he literally knew nothing about PzC, WW2, or anything else. Nor was he entertaining. He was a total waste. I'm sure there's 100 people who could have done well.

[George_Parr]

I don't really see what the problem is supposed to be.

- Why wouldn't they emphasize the 3D engine early on? It's one of the key features and much easier to show off than gameplay, which might not even have been finalized at that time.

- Putting beta testers under NDA is a no-brainer, everyone does that. If you are lucky, you get the odd situation here and there where one of them is allowed to give a summary of what he experienced, but that is hardly the norm.

- The goal of marketing is to reach possible buyers. And the people you need to put the most attention to is those who don't know about the game yet, not those who were already heavily invested in the predecessor, as the latter ones are likely to be interested anyway. This is hardly the only strategy game that went with that approach. Just like trailers for movies or tv-shows are mostly aimed at the general audience, not the hardcore fanbase, as the latter has already soaked up every available detail anyway. Doesn't mean that you couldn't get some more detail for the pre-existing fans as well, but the main marketing-push will obviously look at a different target. After all, if you are here demanding for the game to be released already, you aren't exactly a case of someone marketing needs to convince, now are you?

- You don't seem to have much of an idea how the whole sales process works. This isn't something you can just merrily shift back and forth however you like. There are contracts and agreements to uphold, a whole chain is connected to a release. As was mentioned above, comparing this to Disney makes little sense, as Disney has much of the stuff in-house, and the home-video release isn't really comparable to the first release of a game anyway. You wouldn't see Disney decide one week prior to release that their new blockbuster will start half a week early in theaters either. Contracts with theater(-chains) would obviously not include that period, and theaters couldn't just change their plans like that anyway, as they are bound by contracts they have signed and already planned for what would be available at which specific date. There's a ton of stuff that can't just be changed on a whim.

Not to mention that those few days aren't going to make a difference at all. If anything, right now people are still somewhat capable of moving around freely, which will change throughout next week and won't be removed for quite some time. More people will sit at home by next weekend then they do now, so what advantage is there supposed to be that would somehow offset throwing a wrench in all contractual obligations?

[TJLionheart]

I agree, time to release the game.

[MickMannock]

I agree, time to release the game.

It's just 3 more days now. I think we'll manage.

[Patrick Ward]

I agree, time to release the game.

It's just 3 more days now. I think we'll manage.

this is true but I'm sorry to say Proline is feeling it more as he's got longer to wait ..

Many of us are excluded from the beta and even the release version of the game due to the lack of iPad and Mac support so our only hope is to enjoy the game vicariously.

He needs a virtual, Covid-free hug.

P

[MickMannock]

this is true but I'm sorry to say Proline is feeling it more as he's got longer to wait ..

Just trying to stay positive. There's just so much bad news right now, including my uncle dying of cancer this past weekend.

[Patrick Ward]

this is true but I'm sorry to say Proline is feeling it more as he's got longer to wait ..

Just trying to stay positive. There's just so much bad news right now, including my uncle dying of cancer this past weekend.

Thanks. We do appreciate that.

Sorry for your loss.

Pat

[colberki]

Is the release of the game now delayed? Not sure if I understand the earlier post.

[Patrick Ward]

Is the release of the game now delayed? Not sure if I understand the earlier post.

No it's not currently delayed.

Pat

[TJLionheart]

A missed opportunity. https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/16/2118 ... -set-cs-go ... but as you say, 3 more days.

[Moransky]

I dont't think that it's completely unreal to change release date. Or open access to the beta version for gamers from countries, where virus paralyzed normal life. And I see some examples of such a great behavior. One of them - https://deadline.com/2020/03/birds-of-p ... 202885210/

[proline]

- Why wouldn't they emphasize the 3D engine early on? It's one of the key features and much easier to show off than gameplay, which might not even have been finalized at that time.

If 3D is your key feature you've already lost. This has been explained numerous times. Games are about gameplay, full stop, but especially board games like PzC. Many long-lives games, from chess to poker, require no 3D graphics. It took years to tease out some gameplay ideas from Slitherine, even though they actually had some good ones. Those ideas could have been the focus of a great marketing campaign.

Putting beta testers under NDA is a no-brainer, everyone does that. If you are lucky, you get the odd situation here and there where one of them is allowed to give a summary of what he experienced, but that is hardly the norm.

Reputable companies, such as Apple and Blizzard among many others, stopped the beta NDA crap years ago. Over a decade in blizzard's case. They are far from standard in 2020.

The goal of marketing is to reach possible buyers. And the people you need to put the most attention to is those who don't know about the game yet, not those who were already heavily invested in the predecessor, as the latter ones are likely to be interested anyway. This is hardly the only strategy game that went with that approach. Just like trailers for movies or tv-shows are mostly aimed at the general audience, not the hardcore fanbase, as the latter has already soaked up every available detail anyway. Doesn't mean that you couldn't get some more detail for the pre-existing fans as well, but the main marketing-push will obviously look at a different target. After all, if you are here demanding for the game to be released already, you aren't exactly a case of someone marketing needs to convince, now are you?

First of all, don't assume. You know what they say about assumptions. I am asking them to release the game out of pity for Slitherine, because I feel bad for them. They've done some great work with PzC and it's a shame they weren't able to maximize their commercial success. As stated elsewhere in this thread, I'm not in the target audience and won't be buying the game.

Second, respecting your fanbase is always key to a sequel's success. Trying to grow your fanbase while treating the people who are in it like garbage is how you end up making a Ghostbusters 2016 or Disney Star Wars or Terminator: Last Judgement or Star Trek Beyond or any other flop / underachiever that sprouted from the corpse of a previously successful franchise. Treat your fans with respect and they will grow your franchise for you. Give them garbage like that "Apollo" guy and they turn away in disgust.

You don't seem to have much of an idea how the whole sales process works. This isn't something you can just merrily shift back and forth however you like. There are contracts and agreements to uphold, a whole chain is connected to a release. As was mentioned above, comparing this to Disney makes little sense, as Disney has much of the stuff in-house

Disney chooses not to be beholden to others and Slitherine could choose the same. As has been pointed out in this thread, many other publishers have shown themselves to be nimble and adaptable besides Disney. There are many channels to sell a game where you can control your release date. That includes selling directly from your own store, Steam, Apple's App Store, and many more. If Slitherine is enslaved to others that was poor judgement on their part.

Not to mention that those few days aren't going to make a difference at all. If anything, right now people are still somewhat capable of moving around freely, which will change throughout next week and won't be removed for quite some time. More people will sit at home by next weekend then they do now, so what advantage is there supposed to be that would somehow offset throwing a wrench in all contractual obligations?

People may find they like what they're getting from competitors who have something to offer. And the money is going to run out the longer people are off work.

[Moransky]

Brilliant analysis. My English isn't so good to write such a long post with truth. But I agree with all these words. Thx, Proline.

Of course, it's too late for them. Makes no sense to change date, if you're planning to release the game tomorrow. Time is lost.

[MickMannock]

First of all, don't assume. You know what they say about assumptions. I am asking them to release the game out of pity for Slitherine, because I feel bad for them. They've done some great work with PzC and it's a shame they weren't able to maximize their commercial success. As stated elsewhere in this thread, I'm not in the target audience and won't be buying the game.

Second, respecting your fanbase is always key to a sequel's success. Trying to grow your fanbase while treating the people who are in it like garbage is how you end up making a Ghostbusters 2016 or Disney Star Wars or Terminator: Last Judgement or Star Trek Beyond or any other flop / underachiever that sprouted from the corpse of a previously successful franchise. Treat your fans with respect and they will grow your franchise for you. Give them garbage like that "Apollo" guy and they turn away in disgust.

Comparing the marketing/management of Panzer Corps 2 to different failing (?) movie franchises, and that they are "disrespecting the fanbase" is just ridiculous. It's such a hyperbole statement that has it's roots in 4chan, RPG Codex, et al.

They are doing the best they can, both regarding creating the game itself, marketing it, and all else. No one is disrespecting anything.

Just stop the nonsense.

[proline]

Comparing the marketing/management of Panzer Corps 2 to different failing (?) movie franchises, and that they are "disrespecting the fanbase" is just ridiculous. It's such a hyperbole statement that has it's roots in 4chan, RPG Codex, et al.

They are doing the best they can, both regarding creating the game itself, marketing it, and all else. No one is disrespecting anything.

Just stop the nonsense.

Please read the whole thread. I didn't say Slitherine was disrespecting the fanbase, I was replying to another poster who said that the existing fanbase should be taken entirely for granted while the marketing department focuses on finding new customers. That attitude is always a mistake. I don't think Slitherine has that attitude and overall I don't think they do. As for their relationship with fans, that's complicated. It does seem the overall gameplay of PzC2 will likely please fans. That's far and away the most important thing. They have also been relatively engaged on these forums, which is awesome! But there are some small strikes against them:

1) The abandonment of their iPad / Mac fans, even though these are their biggest fans and only fans who paid twice for the game and also the only fans who paid for the game despite getting a version that is not feature complete and is buggy as hell. Slitherine also chose not to take responsibility for this and instead blame Apple for not supporting backward compatibility with technologies that were obsolete over a decade ago.

2) Failure to offer marketing materials that would appeal to fans during much of development. A year in, they did offer the dev diaries which were very good and collected badly needed feedback (the correct camera angle was worked out entirely via Dev Diary feedback). But they never allowed any devs to be interviewed by anyone proficient in the game and they gave "Apollo" and exclusive instead of one of the many deserving YouTubers among us fans.

3) The unnecessary muzzling of fans during the beta via NDA, even though beta discussion has been proven to build interest in products and boost sales.

[zakblood]

again 3 opinions, non based on facts, if this thread keeps going in the same direction, it will be locked and binned where it maybe deserves to be imo, will pass it on to admin before the act is done so not just my opinion either.

this reply is to the whole thread, not just a single post or poster, this is friendly advice, there won't be a second reminder

please keep on topic, in rules and if posting opinions, please remembers others may have different ones, that maybe are correct or differ from your own.

NDA is a users choice, agree to it and do a alpha or beta testers, or disagree and don't do it, and or not sign up for it in future if your feelings are so strong about a given part / NDA etc.

and your stance on Apple and it's everyone else fault other than them is well known and rather boring now, and incorrect as per your X number of replies on the same subject viewtopic.php?f=121&t=94459

[Sid Meier]

Youre right, Proline. Like always. But creatures like zakblood dont like a words of
true.

Banned by Admin

[Lifever]

Youre right, Proline. Like always. But creatures like zakblood dont like a words of
true.

Only one creature is always right
The alphex predator
He sees the incompetent fail
He feels the pain
It makes him very angry...