Velites and peltats

[MikeC_81]

How would people feel about Velites, Thracian peltasts and Greek peltasts being upgraded to 50% Swordsmen capability, to improve their role as skirmisher hunters? This would of course also affect their points cost, which would increase by 3.

No one has taken up my beta game but from playing velites in SP, the 50% swordsman isn't helping at all. They now just suffer from the same problem as all mixed unit types do. Getting charged for a unit ability that they rarely are able to leverage. Your change has the following effects:

1) Opposing skirmishers have a propensity (not always) to flee when charged as before, so trying to leverage the 50% swordsman by actively charging skirmishers simply results in Velites chasing their target past often to their doom where they just get swallowed up whole by opposing line units since they have ZoC to prevent them from just sliding right past them and closing off lines of flight.

2) When the opposing skirmishers don't flee, 50% swordsman isn't a big enough advantage to reliably break opposing skirmishers in a timely manner to clear the route for heavy units behind them. Often they just get stuck in multiple turns of combat meaning that the same problem occurs as before, cheaper skirmshers can still tie up Velites and Peltasts while blocking lines of advance while doing it.

2) Not actively trying to leverage the 50% swordsman just sees them effectively nerfed by 3 points per unit while they play exactly the same as on the live patch. Maybe in the late game you might come across a situation where you can have a skirmisher vs skirmisher fight but by that point the skirmishers have long outlived their usefulness. I would rather have mine try and chase routers to stop rallies rather than try and rack up an inconsequential 2% army loss score.


This has real consequences for Roman lists that have compulsory Velites. You are effectively robbing them of 12 points at 1200FP since 4 of them are compulsory. Often more since the two Roman lists don't exactly have cheap skirmishers to help so you just have to take more Velites. At least most of the Greek lists can just skip them for traditional skirmish options.

[rbodleyscott]

How would people feel about Velites, Thracian peltasts and Greek peltasts being upgraded to 50% Swordsmen capability, to improve their role as skirmisher hunters? This would of course also affect their points cost, which would increase by 3.

No one has taken up my beta game but from playing velites in SP, the 50% swordsman isn't helping at all. They now just suffer from the same problem as all mixed unit types do. Getting charged for a unit ability that they rarely are able to leverage. Your change has the following effects:

1) Opposing skirmishers have a propensity (not always) to flee when charged as before, so trying to leverage the 50% swordsman by actively charging skirmishers simply results in Velites chasing their target past often to their doom where they just get swallowed up whole by opposing line units since they have ZoC to prevent them from just sliding right past them and closing off lines of flight.

2) When the opposing skirmishers don't flee, 50% swordsman isn't a big enough advantage to reliably break opposing skirmishers in a timely manner to clear the route for heavy units behind them. Often they just get stuck in multiple turns of combat meaning that the same problem occurs as before, cheaper skirmshers can still tie up Velites and Peltasts while blocking lines of advance while doing it.

2) Not actively trying to leverage the 50% swordsman just sees them effectively nerfed by 3 points per unit while they play exactly the same as on the live patch. Maybe in the late game you might come across a situation where you can have a skirmisher vs skirmisher fight but by that point the skirmishers have long outlived their usefulness. I would rather have mine try and chase routers to stop rallies rather than try and rack up an inconsequential 2% army loss score.


This has real consequences for Roman lists that have compulsory Velites. You are effectively robbing them of 12 points at 1200FP since 4 of them are compulsory. Often more since the two Roman lists don't exactly have cheap skirmishers to help so you just have to take more Velites. At least most of the Greek lists can just skip them for traditional skirmish options.

Noted.

I think I will make them Light Protected, 50% swordsmen like the Peltasts. They would stay 30 points as at present.

[melm]

Sounds good.