World at War AAR-MrPlow vs. jjdenver (No jjdenver allowed)
Moderators: rkr1958, Happycat, Slitherine Core
Well, personally i was thinking this game to be won by allies after germany lost so many troops and PP in sealion. My idea was that russia would have taken the initiative earlier.
I still don't understand how russia didn't manage to beat the germans: in BJR mod it happens almost always and in this game it should have happened earlier. Maybe the fact that germans didn't go deep in russia and simply defended near minsk helped a lot. Cause it's true that russia usually take initiative by end of '42, but usually the battles are in caucasus and voronetz, so very far from german capital. Maybe the fact that the front was very close allowed germans to hold off easily russians in '42.
Sealion should have slowed the allies (as it happened) since without beeing able to use their massive airpower it's very hard for allies to launch offensives.
I still don't understand how russia didn't manage to beat the germans: in BJR mod it happens almost always and in this game it should have happened earlier. Maybe the fact that germans didn't go deep in russia and simply defended near minsk helped a lot. Cause it's true that russia usually take initiative by end of '42, but usually the battles are in caucasus and voronetz, so very far from german capital. Maybe the fact that the front was very close allowed germans to hold off easily russians in '42.
Sealion should have slowed the allies (as it happened) since without beeing able to use their massive airpower it's very hard for allies to launch offensives.
/
Gabriele
Gabriele
-
MrPlow
- Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:24 am
- Location: Vancouver, BC
The War is Over.
June, 26, 1944
The War has ended
Do to the various circumstances (which will be discussed below), the Allies have failed to gain the initiative and have ultimately resorted to politics to end this terrible war. Both sides have suffered terribly throughout this war and the resulting civilian political pressure to end it has reached its climax. After much discussion between both sides, a fair armistice has been reached. As a result, Germany has agreed to vacate the British Isles entirely and allow the British Government to once again rule that great isle. In addition, they have agreed to treat all peoples under their control fairly and grant the same rights and freedoms to everyone. With German consent, an impartial organization has been set up in Switzerland, known as the "United Nations" to monitor the treatment of all citizens in the new "Reich". Though not an official part of the agreement, there is much hope that Germany will also begin granting control back to the previous governments of the many nations annexed throughout Western and Central Europe. On the other side, the Allies have also made some large concessions. With Russian, Polish, and the Baltic country's approval, Germany has been ceded control of all Axis-controlled Eastern Europe to provide the "living space" they so desperately wanted. Though this war could have continued for many months, the resulting deaths would have further torn apart the World. However on one interesting note, the war is not entirely over. Germany decided not to "back-up" the Japanese at the bargaining table, and have allowed the United States and other Allied powers to continue the successful offensives against them. Many people in Allied High Command think this is Germany's revenge for Japan dragging the US into the war by forcing the "Third Reich" to "save-face" and declare war on the United States after the attack on Pearl Harbour.
Furthermore there have already been whispers, from unofficial and official sources, of Hitler and his goons being deposed and prosecuted due to crimes against their own people and against humanity. However, as of now these are only whispers, though the movement increases by the day...
Conclusions from the War
There were many reasons the Allies proved unsuccessful in the war which the were majority were due to mistakes of Allied High Command, "Geneva Convention" misunderstandings, Masterful Axis play, and Terrain.
Eastern Front
Even though the Russians lost less territory than usual "Barbarossa" offensives, there were many factors which proved disastrous for Soviet High Command to gain the initiative. First and foremost was lack of Soviet control of the air. Due to technological differences (which is frustrating because the Soviets were researching heavily in this sector since the beginning of the war), air attack misunderstandings, and ultimately failure to take the battle to Luftwaffe airfields, many Middle to Late War offensives failed horribly. As a result of this intense Luftwaffe air supremacy, many "key" Soviet units, such as leaders, tanks, and mechanized infantry were destroyed quickly, through the combination of air attacks, and air-supported Wehrmacht counterattacks. The terrain also heavily favoured the defender. For example, the winter penalties practically ended where the Frontline was situated, meaning that Soviet units were often hindered, which in many cases prevented important Red Army Counteracts. At the same time in many sections of the front, Wehrmacht units not affected could reposition easier and ultimately bring maximum force again Soviet forces. Another key terrain factor was the combination of forests and rivers along large sections of the front. This combination allowed the superior Wehrmacht units to entrench behind the Dnieper, and in many cases in forest hexes, which made Soviet attacks very difficult. This led to the Soviet strategy of attacking near Minsk, however this small area allowed the enemy to bottle and contain Soviet offensives and ultimately defeat them in detail. Probably the biggest factor which resulted in Soviet attrition and stagnation of the front was the deposition of Wehrmacht forces. By only invading the Soviet Union to the natural Dnieper defensive line, they could maximize their forces along the entire front. As a result, the many Wehrmacht units saved from lack of advance into Soviet territory could be used to bolster the defence and prevent any significant Soviet breakouts. Eventually the exhausted and destroyed Red Army units proved no match for a late war Axis offensive that captured further Russian territory before it was stopped to allow Axis forces to rest and repair.
JJdenver player masterfully throughout the game and the Eastern front is only one example of his impressive strategic insight.
Western Front
The Western front was another important theatre of the war where the Allies made crucial mistakes and the Axis exploited them thoroughly. For example, the British support of France was a mistake, because it resulted in the quick destruction of the BEF which could have been used to bolster the defence of England. In addition, the Royal Airforce (which was decimated due to a number of reasons) should of been held further inland to prevent concentrated attacks against it. Although the Royal Navy was destroyed, I do not think there was any way this could have been prevented as it was needed to get in harms way to destroy as many transports as possible during the initial invasion. The combination of a large Luftwaffe presence and Kriegsmarine eventually spelled its doom as it was operating along exposed areas such as in the English Channel. If more of the Royal Navy had been saved and did not attack the transports, the invasion would have gone much easier for Axis forces. However, Allied Command has been wrong many times throughout the war, so maybe it would have been better to save more of it. As they say, "hindsight is 20/20".
One very large area where the Allies failed at in this theatre was the invasion of England later in the war. Although it made some progress in the North, and managed to liberate Glasgow, the attack got bogged down in the Highlands and the very large Luftwaffe presence attrited our forces heavily. In hindsight, Allied High Command feels that more preparation, including the construction of many more carriers to at least achieve air parity, should have been used for the Invasion. They also feel that maybe France would have been a better target, as the west coast has much more favourite terrain for invasions opposed to the mountainous Scottish Highlands. Though the Scottish Highlands were picked as the target because for the beginning of invasion it was farthest away from the might of the German Luftwaffe. Again, JJdenver player masterfully at delaying and destroying the Allied Initiative aswell as inflicting many casualties against the Allies.
North Africa and Iraq
North Africa and ultimately Iraq is where Allied Command feels the war was lost fairly early on. The meager protection of the "all important" allied carrier forced a successful Allied invasion of Libya to halt in its tracts. The loss of this carrier had disastrous implications as it allowed the Axis to reinforce North Africa due to the "Med Rule" not being in effect until the carrier was replaced. Although this was the most frustrating moment for the Allies throughout the entire war considering they met the ship minimum except for the Carrier, it was ultimately a fair consequence for a very stupid Allied mistake. After this occurred, there was some confusion in Allied Command whether or not the Allies in Libya could retreat. By the time they realized they could move their units without breaking the "Geneva Convention" it was too late. A truly masterful move by jjdenver cut of all supply to the "Desert Rats" and by the time supply was "reopened" the lack of movement for 20 days allowed the Africa Korps and Italians to surround the large Allied force. As a result, the destruction of this force opened the door to Egypt and ultimately the Iraqi oilfields. Though the Allies attempted to reinforce Iraq using the "Africa Loop", these reinforcements proved to be too weak and too slow to prevent the capture of the oilfields. However on the bright side they did manage to protect Kuwait and prevent its capture by Axis forces. Instead of focusing on an Operation Torch, the Allies should have sent as many forces around Africa to reinforce Iraq as much as possible. This failure allowed Germany to gain control over the oil fields and ultimately fuel their advanced and deadly tank and air units.
The Invasion of North Africa by Allied troops also proved to be poor use of Allied troops that the Axis masterfully exploited. Although Operation Torch succeeded fairly easily, the attempted capture of Corsica and Sardinia was nearly impossible. A large Luftwaffe presence destroyed the majority of our transports before the units inside them could hit the beaches and also highly damaged our escorting ships. The terrain also proved very defendable which further hindered Allied Advances. Like the other theatres, the Allies should have produced many more carriers and air units to at least provide air parity and some support to the ground forces.
Overall Strategy and Conclusions
Overall, at the pinnacle of the war in 1941-42 the Allies should have defended Iraq better, increased preparations for the invasion of France, and avoided operations in areas of highly defendable terrain like in Africa, Italy, and Northern England. Airpower really proved to be the decisive military factor throughout the war, and the construction of these units should have been more of an allied priority. The Luftwaffe singlehandily stalled offensives, and allowed for effective Wehrmacht counterattacks along all sections of every front. JJdenver is a highly skilled and adaptable player and I am very happy to have had the opportunity to play him in my first PBEM game as he provided a wealth of knowledge and experience. As a result, next time the Allies will not be so careless and will have the experience to lead freedom, justice, and equality to victory! Tally-ho, Oo-rah, and Glory to the Motherland!
Controlled Territory
Here is the final extent of Allied and Axis controlled territory after years of war...
Eastern Front
As you can see, a final Axis offensive in Russia captured a large amount of Soviet territory. There was to be a large force of Soviet Reinforcements to arrive this turn to bolster the defence of the Motherland.
Western Front
Stagnation of the frontlines in England as a large Allied force assembled in North America (large part off screen) to invade France to help reduce pressure off Allied forces in Britain and attempt to liberate the country before the Luftwaffe arrived enforce.
North Africa and Iraq
There are further Allied units to the west of the screen in Africa to strengthen the invasion of Libya.
Thanks To The BJR team and Readers
On a final note I would like to thank Stauffenberg, rkr1958, and Happycat for all the work and effort they have put into the BJR mod. As I have said previously, you all managed to make a great game even better! Again, thank you all for the tireless effort you have put into play testing, developing, and tweaking the BJR mod. You guys are the best!
Also, thank you everyone who read and contributed to the AAR, I really appreciated it, especially through the "dark" times. I look forward to reading all the new AARs that many people are writing and find them great so far! Thanks again everyone!
The War has ended
Do to the various circumstances (which will be discussed below), the Allies have failed to gain the initiative and have ultimately resorted to politics to end this terrible war. Both sides have suffered terribly throughout this war and the resulting civilian political pressure to end it has reached its climax. After much discussion between both sides, a fair armistice has been reached. As a result, Germany has agreed to vacate the British Isles entirely and allow the British Government to once again rule that great isle. In addition, they have agreed to treat all peoples under their control fairly and grant the same rights and freedoms to everyone. With German consent, an impartial organization has been set up in Switzerland, known as the "United Nations" to monitor the treatment of all citizens in the new "Reich". Though not an official part of the agreement, there is much hope that Germany will also begin granting control back to the previous governments of the many nations annexed throughout Western and Central Europe. On the other side, the Allies have also made some large concessions. With Russian, Polish, and the Baltic country's approval, Germany has been ceded control of all Axis-controlled Eastern Europe to provide the "living space" they so desperately wanted. Though this war could have continued for many months, the resulting deaths would have further torn apart the World. However on one interesting note, the war is not entirely over. Germany decided not to "back-up" the Japanese at the bargaining table, and have allowed the United States and other Allied powers to continue the successful offensives against them. Many people in Allied High Command think this is Germany's revenge for Japan dragging the US into the war by forcing the "Third Reich" to "save-face" and declare war on the United States after the attack on Pearl Harbour.
Furthermore there have already been whispers, from unofficial and official sources, of Hitler and his goons being deposed and prosecuted due to crimes against their own people and against humanity. However, as of now these are only whispers, though the movement increases by the day...
Conclusions from the War
There were many reasons the Allies proved unsuccessful in the war which the were majority were due to mistakes of Allied High Command, "Geneva Convention" misunderstandings, Masterful Axis play, and Terrain.
Eastern Front
Even though the Russians lost less territory than usual "Barbarossa" offensives, there were many factors which proved disastrous for Soviet High Command to gain the initiative. First and foremost was lack of Soviet control of the air. Due to technological differences (which is frustrating because the Soviets were researching heavily in this sector since the beginning of the war), air attack misunderstandings, and ultimately failure to take the battle to Luftwaffe airfields, many Middle to Late War offensives failed horribly. As a result of this intense Luftwaffe air supremacy, many "key" Soviet units, such as leaders, tanks, and mechanized infantry were destroyed quickly, through the combination of air attacks, and air-supported Wehrmacht counterattacks. The terrain also heavily favoured the defender. For example, the winter penalties practically ended where the Frontline was situated, meaning that Soviet units were often hindered, which in many cases prevented important Red Army Counteracts. At the same time in many sections of the front, Wehrmacht units not affected could reposition easier and ultimately bring maximum force again Soviet forces. Another key terrain factor was the combination of forests and rivers along large sections of the front. This combination allowed the superior Wehrmacht units to entrench behind the Dnieper, and in many cases in forest hexes, which made Soviet attacks very difficult. This led to the Soviet strategy of attacking near Minsk, however this small area allowed the enemy to bottle and contain Soviet offensives and ultimately defeat them in detail. Probably the biggest factor which resulted in Soviet attrition and stagnation of the front was the deposition of Wehrmacht forces. By only invading the Soviet Union to the natural Dnieper defensive line, they could maximize their forces along the entire front. As a result, the many Wehrmacht units saved from lack of advance into Soviet territory could be used to bolster the defence and prevent any significant Soviet breakouts. Eventually the exhausted and destroyed Red Army units proved no match for a late war Axis offensive that captured further Russian territory before it was stopped to allow Axis forces to rest and repair.
JJdenver player masterfully throughout the game and the Eastern front is only one example of his impressive strategic insight.
Western Front
The Western front was another important theatre of the war where the Allies made crucial mistakes and the Axis exploited them thoroughly. For example, the British support of France was a mistake, because it resulted in the quick destruction of the BEF which could have been used to bolster the defence of England. In addition, the Royal Airforce (which was decimated due to a number of reasons) should of been held further inland to prevent concentrated attacks against it. Although the Royal Navy was destroyed, I do not think there was any way this could have been prevented as it was needed to get in harms way to destroy as many transports as possible during the initial invasion. The combination of a large Luftwaffe presence and Kriegsmarine eventually spelled its doom as it was operating along exposed areas such as in the English Channel. If more of the Royal Navy had been saved and did not attack the transports, the invasion would have gone much easier for Axis forces. However, Allied Command has been wrong many times throughout the war, so maybe it would have been better to save more of it. As they say, "hindsight is 20/20".
One very large area where the Allies failed at in this theatre was the invasion of England later in the war. Although it made some progress in the North, and managed to liberate Glasgow, the attack got bogged down in the Highlands and the very large Luftwaffe presence attrited our forces heavily. In hindsight, Allied High Command feels that more preparation, including the construction of many more carriers to at least achieve air parity, should have been used for the Invasion. They also feel that maybe France would have been a better target, as the west coast has much more favourite terrain for invasions opposed to the mountainous Scottish Highlands. Though the Scottish Highlands were picked as the target because for the beginning of invasion it was farthest away from the might of the German Luftwaffe. Again, JJdenver player masterfully at delaying and destroying the Allied Initiative aswell as inflicting many casualties against the Allies.
North Africa and Iraq
North Africa and ultimately Iraq is where Allied Command feels the war was lost fairly early on. The meager protection of the "all important" allied carrier forced a successful Allied invasion of Libya to halt in its tracts. The loss of this carrier had disastrous implications as it allowed the Axis to reinforce North Africa due to the "Med Rule" not being in effect until the carrier was replaced. Although this was the most frustrating moment for the Allies throughout the entire war considering they met the ship minimum except for the Carrier, it was ultimately a fair consequence for a very stupid Allied mistake. After this occurred, there was some confusion in Allied Command whether or not the Allies in Libya could retreat. By the time they realized they could move their units without breaking the "Geneva Convention" it was too late. A truly masterful move by jjdenver cut of all supply to the "Desert Rats" and by the time supply was "reopened" the lack of movement for 20 days allowed the Africa Korps and Italians to surround the large Allied force. As a result, the destruction of this force opened the door to Egypt and ultimately the Iraqi oilfields. Though the Allies attempted to reinforce Iraq using the "Africa Loop", these reinforcements proved to be too weak and too slow to prevent the capture of the oilfields. However on the bright side they did manage to protect Kuwait and prevent its capture by Axis forces. Instead of focusing on an Operation Torch, the Allies should have sent as many forces around Africa to reinforce Iraq as much as possible. This failure allowed Germany to gain control over the oil fields and ultimately fuel their advanced and deadly tank and air units.
The Invasion of North Africa by Allied troops also proved to be poor use of Allied troops that the Axis masterfully exploited. Although Operation Torch succeeded fairly easily, the attempted capture of Corsica and Sardinia was nearly impossible. A large Luftwaffe presence destroyed the majority of our transports before the units inside them could hit the beaches and also highly damaged our escorting ships. The terrain also proved very defendable which further hindered Allied Advances. Like the other theatres, the Allies should have produced many more carriers and air units to at least provide air parity and some support to the ground forces.
Overall Strategy and Conclusions
Overall, at the pinnacle of the war in 1941-42 the Allies should have defended Iraq better, increased preparations for the invasion of France, and avoided operations in areas of highly defendable terrain like in Africa, Italy, and Northern England. Airpower really proved to be the decisive military factor throughout the war, and the construction of these units should have been more of an allied priority. The Luftwaffe singlehandily stalled offensives, and allowed for effective Wehrmacht counterattacks along all sections of every front. JJdenver is a highly skilled and adaptable player and I am very happy to have had the opportunity to play him in my first PBEM game as he provided a wealth of knowledge and experience. As a result, next time the Allies will not be so careless and will have the experience to lead freedom, justice, and equality to victory! Tally-ho, Oo-rah, and Glory to the Motherland!
Controlled Territory
Here is the final extent of Allied and Axis controlled territory after years of war...
Eastern Front
As you can see, a final Axis offensive in Russia captured a large amount of Soviet territory. There was to be a large force of Soviet Reinforcements to arrive this turn to bolster the defence of the Motherland.
Western Front
Stagnation of the frontlines in England as a large Allied force assembled in North America (large part off screen) to invade France to help reduce pressure off Allied forces in Britain and attempt to liberate the country before the Luftwaffe arrived enforce.
North Africa and Iraq
There are further Allied units to the west of the screen in Africa to strengthen the invasion of Libya.
Thanks To The BJR team and Readers
On a final note I would like to thank Stauffenberg, rkr1958, and Happycat for all the work and effort they have put into the BJR mod. As I have said previously, you all managed to make a great game even better! Again, thank you all for the tireless effort you have put into play testing, developing, and tweaking the BJR mod. You guys are the best!
Also, thank you everyone who read and contributed to the AAR, I really appreciated it, especially through the "dark" times. I look forward to reading all the new AARs that many people are writing and find them great so far! Thanks again everyone!
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Amicofritz
- Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:02 pm
Great AAR
Thx to Mr. Plow for a great AAR! I'm playing the dreaded jjdenver myself now, and he's a mean one on the battlefield! Kudos!
And cheers to the guys creating the Mod, which has turned this game into a truely GREAT game. There's no playing vanilla when you've tasted the real thing!
And cheers to the guys creating the Mod, which has turned this game into a truely GREAT game. There's no playing vanilla when you've tasted the real thing!
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KingHunter3059
- Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:51 pm
- Location: Hyattsville, Maryland USA
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OzHawkeye2
- Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:39 am
Ouch - those Soviet casualties are pretty extreme eh.
Sorry to hear you didn't have a better time of it. I still think that if the game had gone on without a set deadline you'd have eventually clawed it back. With nearly 5 million casualties themselves the Germans would have run out of steam long before taking down Russia I think.
However, that not being the game we play, JJ did well. There was no hope of the Allies recovering London, let alone London AND Paris before the '45 end-date it seems. You probably would have lost Moscow by then too.
I'd like to thank you for a highly enjoyable AAR, it's been an inspiration to the one I'm writing and I look forward to your next one.
Sorry to hear you didn't have a better time of it. I still think that if the game had gone on without a set deadline you'd have eventually clawed it back. With nearly 5 million casualties themselves the Germans would have run out of steam long before taking down Russia I think.
However, that not being the game we play, JJ did well. There was no hope of the Allies recovering London, let alone London AND Paris before the '45 end-date it seems. You probably would have lost Moscow by then too.
I'd like to thank you for a highly enjoyable AAR, it's been an inspiration to the one I'm writing and I look forward to your next one.
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MrPlow
- Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:24 am
- Location: Vancouver, BC
Haha yea I'll say, poor SovietsOzHawkeye wrote:Ouch - those Soviet casualties are pretty extreme eh.
Sorry to hear you didn't have a better time of it. I still think that if the game had gone on without a set deadline you'd have eventually clawed it back. With nearly 5 million casualties themselves the Germans would have run out of steam long before taking down Russia I think.
However, that not being the game we play, JJ did well. There was no hope of the Allies recovering London, let alone London AND Paris before the '45 end-date it seems. You probably would have lost Moscow by then too.
I'd like to thank you for a highly enjoyable AAR, it's been an inspiration to the one I'm writing and I look forward to your next one. Very Happy
. Sorry if my "conclusions" post sounded negative, I actually had a great time playing the game, it was so much fun! Even if I did lose, the experience and knowledge gained from the game was invaluable, and there will be plenty more games in my CEAW PBEM future lol.Also, thanks for reading and commenting on my AAR, I really appreciated it and I'm glad my AAR provided some inspiration to yours lol. I've been reading yours a lot lately and I thought I'd let you know I'm rooting for you! I also know the feeling of losing the majority of the Atlantic Royal Navy but I know you will persevere where I failed! Haha and don't worry I have another AAR idea up my sleeve so to speak and this time from a different perspective!
Cheers
Cheers!
@MrPlow,
Thanks for all the hard work and trouble you went through posting this AAR. It was an enjoyable read and I was pulling for you. You gave it a valiant try and this does seem a good time to pull the plug on the game.
By the way this AAR has inspired a trend and a lot of activity on the board. Good going.
Thanks for all the hard work and trouble you went through posting this AAR. It was an enjoyable read and I was pulling for you. You gave it a valiant try and this does seem a good time to pull the plug on the game.
By the way this AAR has inspired a trend and a lot of activity on the board. Good going.
[quote="MrPlow"]February 28, 1940
Invasion of Belgium
IT HAS BEGUN!!! The Wehrmacht began their powerful three-pronged offensive towards Brussels, taking Antwerp in the process. The allied command sent a french corps to relieve the the battle-weary Brussels garrison. We will attempt to hold the enemy off and delay their advance at the forward defence line (in black). A BB force was dispatched and managed to damage a tank corps by 1 step, every little attack helps to wear down the attackers. The enemy has air superiority but the valiant allied fighters are making them pay for every sortie. The Battle for France is just beginning, the fate of free Europe hangs in the balance, we must succeed!
----------------------hi whats with the oil in the ruhr area ??---------------
Invasion of Belgium
IT HAS BEGUN!!! The Wehrmacht began their powerful three-pronged offensive towards Brussels, taking Antwerp in the process. The allied command sent a french corps to relieve the the battle-weary Brussels garrison. We will attempt to hold the enemy off and delay their advance at the forward defence line (in black). A BB force was dispatched and managed to damage a tank corps by 1 step, every little attack helps to wear down the attackers. The enemy has air superiority but the valiant allied fighters are making them pay for every sortie. The Battle for France is just beginning, the fate of free Europe hangs in the balance, we must succeed!
----------------------hi whats with the oil in the ruhr area ??---------------
Re: Q + A
This game was played using the BJR Mod, which is quite different from the vanilla game.johnjoe88 wrote:in my game no fort in your game all over the place why?rkr1958 wrote:It represents a German synthetic oil facility.johnjoe88 wrote:hi why is oil in the ruhr area?????????
See: viewtopic.php?p=94319#94319 (which is BJR Mod Ver 1.05).
Also, BJRModVer2.00 is currently in beta testing.