Play Balance

[DukeBannon]

How does PzCorps2 ensure play balance in randomly generated scenarios? For example, in real life there was a qualitative difference between the German and Soviet forces in 1941.

[R2G2]

Are you talking about playing MP or AI random generated scenarios? I think there might be a MP balance issue of spamming overstrength Conscripts (without vehicle) to wear down your enemies prestige.

As for the qualitative difference in 41, you might want to elaborate. From what I've read, the Soviets had better armor and in greater numbers than the Germans during the initial invasion. But they severely lacked in leadership, tactics, and strategy due to the Great Purge.

[DukeBannon]

Thanks for the response and let me provide a bit of background. I just finished a 3 player computer generated random scenario with me as the Germans, a friend as the Soviets, and the computer as the Americans. It was a large continent free for all set in 1941 and the Soviet player felt overmatched especially by the Americans. We discussed this and it left us wondering how PzCorps2 ensures play balance in computer generated scenarios.

Yes, the Soviets may have had better tanks in 1941 but for the reasons you mentioned they inferior overall when faced with numerically equal German forces. The Soviets compensated by overwhelming numbers throughout the war even as their quality and experience improved.

So, back to my question … do the players in a computer generated random scenario all start with the same number of prestige points and if so, are the unit costs relative to the overall quality/capabilities of a unit for a given timeframe?

[R2G2]

That seems rare for you to get an American AI in 41. They do suffer unit imbalances in this year against the other factions.

You can use the "setany iseeyou 1" command cheat to verify, but random AI scenarios appear to be balanced at the start based on Prestige. The AI struggles quite a bit in terms of strategy/tactics, but this is common to most strat games.

As for faction balance based on unit availability... you and your friend should have been at an extreme advantage over a 41 American AI. Maybe your friend is new to PC2...?

[DukeBannon]

Do all the factions in a randomly generated battle start with the same number of prestige? If not, how does the game determine the prestige of each of the factions?

[VirgilInTheSKY]

Do all the factions in a randomly generated battle start with the same number of prestige? If not, how does the game determine the prestige of each of the factions?

I think it is the same prestige.

[PoorOldSpike]

How does PzCorps2 ensure play balance in randomly generated scenarios? For example, in real life there was a qualitative difference between the German and Soviet forces in 1941.

Firstly let me congratulate the devs who were involved in creating the random mission generator, it's so good that I haven't been able to stop playing it since I got PC2..
Secondly, having said that, the generator is not quite perfect but hopefully the devs will polish it up in due course, i've already made some suggestions in other threads.

For example as you've noticed, there's no quality difference between nations whereas there should be.
I mean, in real life the Germans gained tremendous experience after overunning Poland and Europe, so when they invaded Russia they had a huge advantage over Ivan, yet this is not represented in the generator, as the German side should start with more experience stars than the Russians.
So in a generated human-vs-Russian AI battle, your Germans all begin with zero experience (no stars) at the beginning of the battle.
Even worse, the Russkis DO start with stars at the beginning, before any combat has taken place!

To further complicate matters, the amount of stars the Russian AI gets (any nationality not just Russians) depends on the difficulty level, for example on the lowest difficulty 'Major', each AI unit randomly begins the battle with 0 or 1 stars, but they get more stars the higher the difficulty level is, for examp at "Generalissimo' level they each get around 2 to 4 stars!

Your human force never gets any stars at the start, no matter what the diff level, you have to earn stars by combat.

PS- as regards prestige points (the things we buy replacements and new units with), they're linked to the size of battle we choose in the generator, for example both sides get more for larger battles.
However, prestige points are also affected by the Difficulty setting. Example- in a 'Colonel' difficulty battle, both the human and AI sides get exactly the same amount of incoming prestige points per turn, but at higher levels the human gets less than the AI.

[DukeBannon]

To further complicate matters, the amount of stars the Russian AI gets (any nationality not just Russians) depends on the difficulty level, for example on the lowest difficulty 'Major', each AI unit randomly begins the battle with 0 or 1 stars, but they get more stars the higher the difficulty level is, for examp at "Generalissimo' level they each get around 2 to 4 stars!

Thanks for your insights. In what ways do the benefits of stars and experience manifest themselves?

[VirgilInTheSKY]

To further complicate matters, the amount of stars the Russian AI gets (any nationality not just Russians) depends on the difficulty level, for example on the lowest difficulty 'Major', each AI unit randomly begins the battle with 0 or 1 stars, but they get more stars the higher the difficulty level is, for examp at "Generalissimo' level they each get around 2 to 4 stars!

Thanks for your insights. In what ways do the benefits of stars and experience manifest themselves?

For each star, unit gain +10% accurancy when attacking and -3% recieved accurancy when attacked. Since the base accurancy is 50%, each star would thus mean a 20% damage increase and 6% defense increase.

[PoorOldSpike]

Thanks for your insights. In what ways do the benefits of stars and experience manifest themselves?

Like Virgil said, a unit with a star shoots better and dodges enemy fire better, and the more stars it has, the better it is..
Here's the bit about it on page 56 of the manual-



I've observed that a unit will gain its first star after it's been in about 4 or 5 combats, but the second and subsequent stars are harder to get and need progressively more combats.


Returning to your original question of play balance, the random mission generator is tremendously flexible and we can balance a battle out by using various 'home rules' to give ourselves or the enemy AI an edge depending on the nation and the period of the war etc.
Also, the 'Commander Traits' screen (below) allows us to further give ourselves a boost where we deem it appropriate.
For example the 'Battle Academy' trait allows our own units to gain experience stars quicker, and the 'Master of Blitzkrieg' trait gives our tanks an extra movement point and allows them to cross minor rivers without stopping.
The 'Perimeter Control' trait allows our units to slip through enemy ZOCs easier.

[PoorOldSpike]

We can further achieve play balance by setting up random battles exactly the way we want them, for example below are the setup perimeters i use a lot because they give a nice battle, not too big, not too small which can be played in a couple of hours.




Below- here's the random map and units thrown up by those parameters, my American units are at the bottom and the AO Germans are at the top hidden in the fog of war.
I can purchase extra units up to a 70-slot maximum, and I get 105 incoming prestige points per turn.
At this 'General' difficulty level the AI gets 150 prestige per turn.
Officially you win if you capture all or most of the white-hex objectives, but that's a tall order so I regard myself as winner if I hold more than half at the end, which will be 4 on this 7-objective map.
The great attraction of the generator for me is the fact that it gives us a brandnew map and units each time, and we have to use all our wargame skills to adapt, improvise and overcome..

[DukeBannon]

Thanks everyone. This is great information.

[PoorOldSpike]

Here's that random map again, my Americans vs the AI's Germans.
I don't know what units the generator has given the Germans at the top, and I don't know where his main thrust will be coming in, all I know is that he'll probably have some very heavy metal because this is 1944.
The red lines are the AI's probable lines of advance.
So I have to decide on my own plan of action, my Americans start the battle in possession of objective #1, and I should be able to waltz into #2 unopposed, but #3 and #4 are different kettles of fish and I'd need to capture them both to win the game under my 4-objs to win house rule.
I daresay #3 would be a tough nut to crack because it's nearer the German side of the map, so it could result in a major head-on clash of our main forces.
Number #4 on the left would be tricky for me to get to first, as there's only one bridge across the river, and that mountain near the bridge would further slow movement.
As I mentioned earlier, the attraction of the generator for me is that it gives us a brandnew totally different wargame every time..

"Just go down that road until you get blown up"- Gen George Patton
"The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving"- Gen. Ulysses S. Grant
"The whole art of war consists of guessing at what is on the other side of the hill"- Duke of Wellington
"The battlefield is a scene of constant chaos. The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies"- Napoleon
"The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence"- Adolf Hitler

[Scrapulous]

That looks like a tough map for the Americans. The way I read it, the Germans could have taken four objectives without opposition by turn 2 (or 3, depending on their units). Meanwhile, the U.S. forces are going to have to fight just to get a third objective. Ouch.

[PoorOldSpike]

That looks like a tough map for the Americans. The way I read it, the Germans could have taken four objectives without opposition by turn 2 (or 3, depending on their units). Meanwhile, the U.S. forces are going to have to fight just to get a third objective. Ouch.

Yes, a human-German player would have the advantage, but the AI-German is always slower off the mark, even though PC2's AI is better than most other wargames..