Afrika Korps (BE+A) ~~ FM, Rommel and equipment limitations ~~ DONE

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Locarnus
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
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Re: Afrika Korps (BE+A) ~~ FM, Rommel and equipment limitations

Post by Locarnus »

JanD wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:59 pm 8. Malta ~~ MV
Turn 5: on the eastern peninsula (sort of), I was confused that our infantry was shelled by artillery. Unless there was another bunker, it meant that there is an AT on the spotted fortress hex - together with the knowledge from Gazala, empty fort hexes kept me suspicious throughout the scenario.
Anyway, that was the moment when I pondered if landing on the "peninsula" was a good idea
That might be an issue with BE stats again (like the range of many aircraft). Due to BE bunkers and eg carriers/ships having much bigger spotting range than those units have in vanilla PzC.
Not sure what to do about that. I maybe could create "duplicate" versions, one for BE and one for "normal" campaigns like AK. Though that requires quite some effort for implementation.
JanD wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:59 pm I would appreciate ideas how to DV Malta. Any time I played it I never got a decisive, its either Cirkewwa in the north or Zejtun in the south of the main island that remains in AI hands.
Comparing the replay with the old double Rommel playthrough by goose_2, I think pulling back some of your Northern and Southern units on sea did cost you ~2 turns. And goose_2 seemed to have less units on the Northern island, while your units were finished early with that island. It is a tight scenario, so one more unit in the South (from the beginning) might have made a difference?

goose_2 double Rommel vanilla Africa Corps playthrough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnzpgA3 ... x&index=18
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)
Locarnus
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
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Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Afrika Korps (BE+A) ~~ FM, Rommel and equipment limitations

Post by Locarnus »

JanD wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:26 pm 9) Alam Halfa ~~ Ls
Italian "8.8cm AA"
Remembered that guns of the same caliber are in-family upgrades. Another oversight on my behalf, though I think it was good at Gazala to have another mobile AA, and it didn't matter much at Malta.

Bf 109 F4 vs Bf 109 G2
The G2 is cheaper and has Air Attack+1, however it has less fuel and Initiative-1. I think the F4's initiative advantage has kept it in good shape so far, AA+1 is not much and the F4 shares the same initiative with the Fw 190 A4 - less thinking on my side required.
Agreed, upgrade possibilities are not very obvious and hard to adjust to. With so many changes ongoing, I'm just very hesitant to make some graphics or so. Since those would need to be adjusted every time.
For now imho the best way is to load up the current equipment file with notepad++ (with the "ElasticTabstops" plugin and a font type/size that allows most of the file to be displayed horizontally).
Or alternatively loading the equipment file with Excel and "freezing rows and columns" at E3. Though changes with excel are more painful due to the data format.
JanD wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:26 pm Stug III early vs Stug III late
I love the utility of the StuG III B and E. When you need a tank, you have a Pz IV F/1, so to say. When you need artillery, you have a short-ranged 75mm gun - not very strong, but will add suppression and reduce entrenchment without suffering return fire. Also acts as aty support/escort.
Upgrading to a late StuG III was a tough decision, but Gazala with its Grants and Matildas was also tough. And we should be approaching the Churchills around now.
So, thinking for a while, I decided to do the upgrade finally. However, since there was a need for artillery at Malta in the final turns, I first had to switch to tank mode mid-scenario here at Alam Halfa and then do the upgrade mid-scenario too. I'll put more planning into this in future playthroughs *fingers crossed*
I really like that the upgrade options provide "hard choices", which indicates some balance between historical options.
JanD wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:26 pm Good point indeed - and big kudos to everyone who plays on "normal". While I think that "limited" could have been set to 30-40% instead of 20%, I do prefer playing with limited dice to keep the blood pressure down. Although this does make playing and keeping units alive easier, while at the same time making comparisons between 2 playthroughs more difficult. Example, if a unit in my playthrough survives with 3 Strength, in goose's playthrough this could have been a dead (core) unit.
Perhaps the "reform units" difficulty option could result in something between "normal" and "limited dice". The experience loss would hit especially hard on Field Marshal, but at least the heroes would be retained.
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)
JanD
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Re: Afrika Korps (BE+A) ~~ FM, Rommel and equipment limitations

Post by JanD »

.


11) Kasserine ~~ MV



Replacements
elite: all units

Upgrade
Jäger 42 to FallschirmJg 42
Bersaglieri (truck) to be without transport
StuG III F/8 to G
2x Pz IV G to G+
SdKfz 7/2 to 7/2+
SdKfz 10/4 to 7/1+
Fw 190 A4 to A5
- "jungelized" several units



Deployment

1* FallschirmJg [1 OS] (airborne)
1* FallschirmJg [1 OS] (airborne)
2* Bersaglieri [2 OS] [Def+1 , Spt+1]
2* Bersaglieri [2 OS] [Att+6]

2* Pz III M [1 OS] [Att+3]
2* StuG III G [2 OS] [Def+1]
2* Pz IV G+ [1 OS] [Ini+1 , Mov+1]
2* Pz IV G+ [1 OS] [Att+1 , Def+1]

2* Ab 41 [1 OS] [Spt+1]

2* 10.5cm leG [2 OS] [Def+2] (airborne)
3* 10.5cm leFH (horses) [3 OS]
3* 10.5cm leFH (tractor) [2 OS] [Mov+1]
2* 21cm NblWfr (truck) [1 OS] [Mov+1]
2* 15cm sFH (tractor)
2* Bison I
3* Can. 105/28 (truck) [2 OS]
2* Semovente 75/18 [2 OS] [Att+1]
2* Semovente 75/18 [2 OS] [Att+3 , Mov+1]

2* SdKfz 7/1+ [2 OS] [Att+1]
2* SdKfz 7/2+ [2 OS] [Att+3 , Def+2]
1* Can. 90/53 (truck) [1 OS] [Mov+1]

3* Bf 109 F4 [2 OS] [Att+3]
2* Fw 190 A5 [2 OS] [Att+2]
2* MC.202 [2 OS] [Def+2]

2* Ju 87 D [1 OS] [Ini+1]
3* Bf 110 G [2 OS] [Att+2]
3* SM.79 [1 OS] [Att+3]


Reserve
2* Pz II F [Mov+1]
2* 7.5cm Pak [Def+2]
2* Semovente 75/18 [Att+5]
2* 8.8cm Flak [Att+3 , Def+1 , Mov+1]
3* MC.202 [Att+3]
3* Ju 87 D [1 OS] [Att+1 , Ini+1]


Random thoughts
A two pronged approach into the map, with a sneaky paratrooper attack on the distant victory hex. Infantry and lots of artillery for mountain combat.
The clear area in the center got me suspicious of a potential tank battle.
That last victory location in the north got me by surprise. I guess my planning was off, by concentrating too many forces in the west.


Actually played Kasserine a couple days back, but forgot to post it :oops:



12) Mareth Line ~~ MV


Mini spoiler
--------------
Locarnus turned the captured Valentine from Kasserine into a core unit with the recent update. I hadn't updated the efile with the new patch, in fear of gremlins screwing something up. Anyway, i made some broad guesstimation of what the Valantine (315 prestige as base cost) would be worth after green refit (so far all captured units were understrength) and added 280 prestige to the treasure chest.



Replacements
elite: all units, except the 15cm sFH

Upgrade
1x Semovente 75 to 90/53
Pz II F to Luchs
- tropicalized all units


Deployment

1* FallschirmJg [1 OS] [Att+1]
2* Bersaglieri [2 OS] [Def+1 , Spt+1]

2* Pz III M [1 OS] [Att+3]
2* StuG III G [2 OS] [Def+1]
2* Pz IV G+ [1 OS] [Ini+1 , Mov+1]
2* Pz IV G+ [1 OS] [Att+1 , Def+1]
3* Sem. 90/53 [2 OS] [Att+3 , Mov+1]

2* Pz II L [Mov+1]
2* Ab 41 [Spt+1]

3* 10.5cm leG [2 OS] [Def+2]
3* 10.5cm leFH (tractor) [Mov+1]
3* 21cm NblWfr (truck) [3 OS] [Mov+1]
2* 15cm sFH (tractor)
2* Bison I
3* Can. 105/28 (truck) [2 OS]
3* Semovente 75/18 [2 OS] [Att+3]
2* Semovente 75/18 [2 OS] [Att+5]

2* SdKfz 7/1+ [2 OS] [Att+1]
2* SdKfz 7/2+ [2 OS] [Att+3 , Def+2]
2* 8.8cm Flak [tractor] [Att+3 , Def+1 , Mov+1]
1* Can. 90/53 (truck) [1 OS] [Mov+1]

Bf 109 F4 [3 OS] [Att+3]
Fw 190 A5 [2 OS] [Att+2]
2* MC.202 [2 OS] [Att+3]
2* MC.202 [2 OS] [Def+2]

2* Ju 87 D [1 OS] [Ini+1]
3* Ju 87 D [1 OS] [Att+1 , Ini+1]
3* Bf 110 G [2 OS] [Att+2]
3* SM.79 [1 OS] [Att+6]


Reserve
1* FallschirmJg [Spt+1]
2* Bersaglieri [1 OS] [Att+6]
2* 7.5cm Pak (truck) [Def+2]
3* 10.5cm leFH (horses) [1 OS]



Random thoughts
The briefing sounded as if we should expect some evil gremlins coming to troll us, and thinking of past scenarios with lots of enemy air, I broke my rules again to bring another large caliber German AA (was cheapest). Also thought of potential AA traps, but mostly tried deploying to the rear to avoid getting attacked.

I totally forgot to upgrade the Pz III to the late "+" and the Bf 109 to new model.
Speaking of thing I forgot: I did take some notes, but I forgot to write down the complete deployment phase, thus had to redo with the help of the replay. Could be that the above is a little off of the actual Mareth replay.

Turn 13-14: should have just gathered all remaining fighters and hunted down that Spitfire.

Turn 15: how was that workshop still operational behind enemy lines :lol:

AI turn 16: that's exactly the reason why I have been ignoring these portee-style units for so long, theye are just too squishy

Mareth is madness :twisted:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/cn8comooe6rg7 ... h.zip?dl=0
faos333
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Re: Afrika Korps (BE+A) ~~ FM, Rommel and equipment limitations

Post by faos333 »

My opinion Bf 109 F4 vs Bf 109 G2, definitely stay with F4
Battlefield Europe get the most from Panzer Corps 8)
Download the new 2.4 Mod here http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=47985
JanD
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:10 pm

Re: Afrika Korps (BE+A) ~~ FM, Rommel and equipment limitations

Post by JanD »

Me: how do you DV Malta?!
Locarnus: check goose.
goose: Double Rommel, Normal Dice, no overstrength, DV
Me: not fair, goose is a steamroller baby!

Btw, that's the song I wanted to show a while back in the chat, but got blocked by youtube. Finally thought about just linking it here :D


On a more serious note:
Locarnus wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:09 pm
JanD wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:59 pm I would appreciate ideas how to DV Malta. Any time I played it I never got a decisive, its either Cirkewwa in the north or Zejtun in the south of the main island that remains in AI hands.
Comparing the replay with the old double Rommel playthrough by goose_2, I think pulling back some of your Northern and Southern units on sea did cost you ~2 turns. And goose_2 seemed to have less units on the Northern island, while your units were finished early with that island. It is a tight scenario, so one more unit in the South (from the beginning) might have made a difference?
Actually, goose
- had even more units on the northern island
- also pulled back/was slow to land with all forces
The potentially deciding factor was the lower ammo of auxiliary ships and me being too slow to conquer ports and sending ships to resupply in the ports. Having several cruisers as additional artillery can wear down entrenchment much more easily.
Though this now makes me curious why I failed the DV in earlier playthroughs, because the lower ammo count is no excuse there.


Locarnus wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:09 pm
JanD wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:59 pm 8. Malta ~~ MV
Turn 5: on the eastern peninsula (sort of), I was confused that our infantry was shelled by artillery. Unless there was another bunker, it meant that there is an AT on the spotted fortress hex - together with the knowledge from Gazala, empty fort hexes kept me suspicious throughout the scenario.
Anyway, that was the moment when I pondered if landing on the "peninsula" was a good idea
That might be an issue with BE stats again (like the range of many aircraft). Due to BE bunkers and eg carriers/ships having much bigger spotting range than those units have in vanilla PzC.
Not sure what to do about that. I maybe could create "duplicate" versions, one for BE and one for "normal" campaigns like AK. Though that requires quite some effort for implementation.
Just in case: I was thinking about the area around Zejtun.
I checked and it was the AT gun. At that moment I still wasn't used to the Camo Ability, so that I got a little confused about the situation.
I'm actually a little more worried about all the towed guns that have increased spotting range, makes it so much more difficult to hide, set ambushes, land on the ground, etc.

But in the end IMO all of that, including the bunkers and ships, is fine. Also helps the AI to react, creating a more dynamic playing experience :)



Locarnus wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:29 pm Agreed, upgrade possibilities are not very obvious and hard to adjust to. With so many changes ongoing, I'm just very hesitant to make some graphics or so. Since those would need to be adjusted every time.
Suggestion: at the moment the multi-purpose units read something like
- Fighter -> Tac.Bomber
- Pz I -> sIG
Maybe standartizing all of them to "chassis -> different class" would make it easier. Haven't put much thought or comparison into it yet. E.g., I think for the Bisons it could be confusing if both read "Pz X -> sIG", when there is no sIG unit - for those who now the tech it might be obvious, but for those who don't... okay, suboptimal idea from my side.

Locarnus wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:29 pm For now imho the best way is to load up the current equipment file with notepad++ (with the "ElasticTabstops" plugin and a font type/size that allows most of the file to be displayed horizontally).
Or alternatively loading the equipment file with Excel and "freezing rows and columns" at E3. Though changes with excel are more painful due to the data format.
Couldn't find it in the download list. Found it on github, but manual installation failed. A quick search on the forums didn't reveal a solution. In short, I'm a bit at a loss. Kind of weird, I like Notepad++
Libre office can display the efile though, too.
And ya, I tried doing some simple renaming for Italy Corps, but afterwards there were no units in the scenario :? A pity we don't have somehting like Guzman Tools for Panzer Corps.


Locarnus wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:29 pm
JanD wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:26 pm Good point indeed - and big kudos to everyone who plays on "normal". While I think that "limited" could have been set to 30-40% instead of 20%, I do prefer playing with limited dice to keep the blood pressure down. Although this does make playing and keeping units alive easier, while at the same time making comparisons between 2 playthroughs more difficult. Example, if a unit in my playthrough survives with 3 Strength, in goose's playthrough this could have been a dead (core) unit.
Perhaps the "reform units" difficulty option could result in something between "normal" and "limited dice". The experience loss would hit especially hard on Field Marshal, but at least the heroes would be retained.
Sorry for being inprecise. My point was not about losing units to bad rolls (*). My point was about combat being random, took a wrong explanation/example there.
With normal dice combat is so totally awfully random. Example, you send a Pz IV against an infantry, prediction 0:7.
With normal dice, it could also be 0:3. Or 0:0. Or 7:0. You never now what will happen, thus lacking a sense of "safety of play".

After playing some campaigns with normal dice I made a point for myself and decided to play with limited dice.
Normal dice might be more realistic, but it is just too much to deal with for me. Or "not fun to play" for me. I will not argue which is "better", because that is subjective to each individual.


(*) half the time I play "dead is dead", the other half... I just reload :oops: :D
JanD
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:10 pm

Re: Afrika Korps (BE+A) ~~ FM, Rommel and equipment limitations

Post by JanD »

.


13) Tunisian Bridgehead ~~ DV


Mini spoiler
The captured Churchill from Mareth was green refitted and disbanded.




Replacements
elite: 1x FallschirmJg, Pz III, Semovente 90, SdKfz 7/1, SdKfz 7/2, 8.8cm AA, Fw 190, 1x MC.202
green: remaining units

Disband
2* Bison I ~~ [no hero @82]
3* Bf 110 G ~ [Att+1 , Att+1 (Att+2)]

Upgrade
1x FallschirmJg 42 to Jäger 42
Pz III M to M+
8,8cm Flak 36 (SdKfz 7) to (without transport)
2x Sem. 75/18 to 75/34
2x MC.202 to 205
- almost all units to "continental" camo


Deployment
I listed all units with all their heroes in detail, and for the same heroes in chronological order.
Thus e.g. a unit with [Att+2 , Att+1] raised the Attack+2 first and in total it has Attack+3.

1* Jäger ~~~~~ [1 OS] [Spt+1]
2* FallschirmJg [1 OS] [Att+1]
2* Bersaglieri [1 OS] [Def+1 , Spt+1]
2* Bersaglieri [1 OS] [Att+3 , Att+3]

2* Pz III M+ ~~ [2 OS] [Att+1 , Att+2]
2* StuG III G ~ [2 OS] [Def+1 , Def+2]
1* Pz IV G+ ~~ [1 OS] [Ini+1 , Mov+1]
2* Pz IV G+ ~~ [2 OS] [Att+1 , Def+1] turn 9: [Def+2]
3* Sem. 90/53 [2 OS] [Att+3 , Mov+1]

2* Pz II L [Mov+1] turn 8: [Def+3]
2* AB 41 [Spt+1]

2* 7.5cm Pak (Opel Blitz) [1 OS] [Def+2]

3* 10.5cm leG ~~~~~~~~~~ [2 OS] [Def+2]
3* 10.5cm leFH (horses) ~ [1 OS]
3* 10.5cm leFH (SdKfz 11) ~~~~~ [Mov+1]
2* 15cm sFH (SdKfz 7)
3* 21cm NblWf (Protze) ~ [3 OS] [Mov+1]
3* Can. 105/28 (Fiat) ~~~ [2 OS]
3* Sem. 75/34 ~~~~~~~~~ [2 OS] [Att+1 , Att+2]
3* Sem. 75/34 ~~~~~~~~~ [2 OS] [Att+5 (special campaign hero)]

3* SdKfz 7/1+ ~~~~~~~~~~ [3 OS] [Att+1]
3* SdKfz 7/2+ ~~~~~~~~~~ [2 OS] [Att+3 , Def+2]
-- 8.8cm Flak 18 (SdKfz 7)
3* 8.8cm Flak 36 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [Att+3 , Def+1 , Mov+1]
2* Can. 90/53 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [Mov+1]

3* Bf 109 F4 [3 OS] [Att+2 , Att+1 , Att+3]
3* Fw 190 A5 [3 OS] [Att+1 , Att+1]
2* MC.205 ~~ [2 OS] [Def+2 , Ini+1]
3* MC.205 ~~ [3 OS] [Att+2 , Att+1]

3* Ju 87 D [1 OS] [Att+1 , Ini+1]
3* Ju 87 D [1 OS] [Att+1 , Ini+1]
3* SM.79 ~ [1 OS] [Att+3 , Att+3]


Reserve
none. In fact, we are going into Tunis with 2 less units than allowed



Disbanded units and elite refits
Disbanding the Bison and 110 hurt a lot. They were both starters from the beginning of our journey, "Recon in Force" :shock:
Thought about it for quite a while. Not exactly how I would have liked to go into the final scenario. Could have gone for more green refitting and/or much less overstrength, of course, but with Mareth in our bones, the above seemed the most workable solution.
The Pz III was so close to its 3rd XP star (297 XP) that I had to go for the elite refit.
And regarding the "downgrade" of the 8.8cm '36 transport, it was done to reduce the refit costs (I didn't cheat to refund the transport, just removed it via upgrade).

Bf 109 F4 vs Bf 109 G6
I had forgotten the upgrad eand the discussion at Mareth.
The G6 has Air Attack+3, Initiative-1, Fuel-1 and is only 3 prestige more expensive. On an experienced fighter, the Att+3 might be worth it, BUT...
Forgot the upgrade at Mareth, and now at Tunis I don't want the upgrade. The 109 survived as an F4 until here, and in a very "economical" way *ehh* I meant with lots of style. Thus we keep it as our "flying aces" in a yellow F4, that will be a huge moral boost to the troops :D



Turn and bonus prestige was used to refit, elite refit and in 2 cases (both of our Semovente 75) to buy overstrength mid-scenario.

AI turn 2: those poor boys at sea

AI turn 8: oh crab, forgot the AA :shock:

Turn 8: SdKfz 7/2 dancing around in the north: where to plant it in the face of enemy tanks coming at us?

Turn 10: does somebody have a scientific sounding, but ultimately totally made up, explanation of why the heck I didn't force surrender that Sherman? Unbelievable :o

Turn 11: good to know that the reinforcements don't need to physically arrive at the designated locations

We made it :D

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlv52rp0aoleb ... a.zip?dl=0



Officially no core losses, but disbanding 2 veteran units in the last scenario somehow feels like a loss.

As for auxiliary units:
Image
13 scenarios... would someone believe if I said that I generally try to save auxiliary units? (;





Campaign conclusion



Efile

McGuba and Locarnus did a great job with their modding work. Also many thanks to icon creators, for making it possible :)
I love all the new units, and unit switches, the options they create for building your core, doing games of thoughts in between scenarios about how you would want to develop your core over the course of the following scenarios.
The (re)balancing of many statistics, in particular pricing, adds to it.
Sure, if you want you could always split hairs down to their atoms and rumble about something, but taking the mod as a whole: all the bits and pieces fit perfectly together and display the bigger picture in beautiful colours.
Thank you very much for that :D

The only negative, and it can still be seen as subjective bias, is the Camouflage Ability.
If unit scale is battalion and up: how do you hide hundreds to potentially thousands of soldiers and tons of equipment on open ground? And most of terrain types suitable for ground units can be perceived fully or partially as "open".
In practice, especially for traditional scenarios, the Camo ability can be anything from fun over hate to lost scenarios (I am thinking of some victory conditions).



Campaign

Afrika Korps is among my top 20, if not top 10, all-time favourite campaigns from all games and mods.
The mix of scenarios, the overall dynamic with prestige and difficulty bumps, the theater, the equipment, the style of play, everything balanced in just the right dose for a tasty cake. And Locarnus added even more icing to it :D



Difficulty

1) Field Marshal
Whenever I play on Field Marshal (FM) difficulty I have to smile: years ago I came across comments that FM is not a true "highest" difficulty level, because it starts unlocked and has no special name and playing on it is easy.
For the average player, FM is a lot to chew on, because Experience is just so important. Just remember how easily our 2-star and overstrengthed Italian fighters and at Mareth even our 2-star overstrengthed Fw 190 got attacked by AI fighters, even if the AI's units were already damaged. With more stars it would have been a different topic.
Field Marshal is fun, but nothing to sneeze at.

2) Rommel
Rommel is definitively fun and IMO out of the 4 highest "single" difficulties probably the easiest one.
Having to turn around every penny (or prestige point) twice and think where to invest it. Not sending your units onto suicide missions for some XP or to push the advance. It is a change of pace for sure.
But there are reasons why games of the genre basically always offer this as the or one of the difficulty levels.

3) Equipment limitations
...were fun and fitted to the "crazy challenge" idea.
Trying out some units I would have otherwise skipped, re-evaluating others, and overall learning a bit about my playing style and where it is faulty, all was interesting and entertaining for me. Hopefully for you too :D



Unit discussion

Short summary, most surprising units that I approve:
- Nebelwerfer
- 2cm Flak and 3.7cm Flak, including their self-propelled versions


Trying out some new units and trying to use others to their limits reveiled some aspects.
The following is geared for the Battlefield Europe and Addon mods, but might offer some insight for the vanilla game and other mods as well.

- Jäger infantry "sub-class"
IMO the paratroopers are overpriced (something like 220 would have also done it), but I see the point: high Soft Attack, Initiative, and of course the paradrop and bunker buster abilities.
I certainly had my troubles using them to their fullest. Initially intended as fortress busters, shock troops against soft targets, and airmobile special forces, they excelled at neither role.
There are not enough bunkers to justify them. They are too vulnerable to operate on their own against soft targets, or rather "they are not that much more effective than cheaper infantry". There are not that many scenarios with air transports. Though the FallschirmJg did shine at Kasserine, where they conquered a far away hill/mountain area required for victory.
Jäger, GebirgsJg and Kradschützen (though I barely used the latter) are good and "cost-effective".
I'm not sure about cavalry, because their movement is suboptimal in the desert - confusingly for me, but I won't argue about it (don't quote me on that ;) ).
Dunno about the regulars infantry "sub-class", since ITA regulars were quickly phased out and Bersaglieri are ITA Jäger. Will have to try out the regulars in a future playthrough.

- Pz III
If prestige permitted ot, this tank was among the ones to be phased out rather sooner than later (across all games, not only Panzer Corps). Its lower stats just don't seem appealing in the long run, and this might actually be right, thinking about Mareth. But in general, if you can keep it with high experience and/or away from big enemy tanks, maybe coupled with solid heroes, it is actually a very economical unit. Requiring few repairs, even keeping overstrength from previous scenarios, and taking out weaker and weakened enemy units itself.
(please note: it has been years that I played Grand Campaign, so don't quote me when playing that one with Pz IIIs ;) )

- StuG III
Early models are great utility vehicles, either as tanks or switched to artillery. Also very economical.
The later models, since they are now in the tank class, are by no means a "poor mans Pz IV". They have solid firepower and armour (and yes: are cheaper than contemporary Pz IV), thus only strong and/or experienced enemies will dare attacking it.
Sidenote: I remember a discussion in the chat, where goose and I advocated against putting SPATs in the tank class. I have since changed my mind, they fit very well in there :)

- Pz II tank/recon
The Pz II L/Luchs is okay. Fast, but expensive.
I'm not so much convinced or sold regarding the earlier models. They are slower and more expensive than contemporary, equally armed recon cars. The only true advantage of the Pz II recon is its thicker armour and that it can switch to tank mode. It loses Phased Movement ability, but gains Rate of Fire (RoF) when switching to tank mode. And that is not much.

- towed AT units
As usual: what do you do with them? Camouflage doesn't help in most cases.

- tank and artillery "portee" style units
Marder, Bison, etc. Their strength is their firepower, and to some extend that they are cheaper than contemporary tanks or respectively towed artillery.
Their weaknesses are their still high price, low defense and overall low ammo. The "portee" artillery in particular, when switched to tank mode, lacks RoF.
I will give the Marders a try in a future playthrough, since I skipped them this time round.
But the Bison for example: low ammo, low defense, low RoF, yet expensive at ~350 prestige. I didn't dare using it in its tank mode. It was between "okay" and "effective" in its artillery mode though, I won't argue about that.

- horse-drawn artillery
They are slow to move around, but I sure had my fun with them. The lower price can be a deciding factor when giving overstrength. I probably would use them again, but I wouldn't mind if the Horse and Horse-Drawn move methods would be improved to move 3 hexes in the desert ;)

- "Nebelwerfer" style units
Their weakness is their short range, so that they can end up in enemy artillery fire.
Their strengths are their high fire power, making them great infantry guns - and slightly lower price, so that losing overstrength doesn't hurt as much.

- airmobile/paratrooper 10.5cm leG
Without transport it is slow, and has only range=2, but I found it to be quite useful... situationally.
Without transport it is potentially cheaper than other artillery (oversrength), and if you use "infantry on foot" and/or paratroopers, 1-2 of these guns can be effective in supporting them.
Not the "whoa cool" effect maybe, but certainly better than I was told they would be.

- self-propelled AA
No matter if the small-caliber 10/4 and 7/1 or the mid-caliber 7/2, mobile AA was very effective in its AA role. Certainly helped by overstrength and Attack heroes, but still.
And they have the ability to switch to ground combat, creating a solid unit to send against weakened enemies, especially soft targets.

- towed AA
The large guns are still the most effective ones. But to my surprise also the smaller guns are very good.
The 2cm gun has move=2, allowing to operate from the 2nd line and taking out weakened units or helping out with (scratching paint from) enemy airforce. The 3.7cm gun might appear slow, but in its AA mode it has range=2, and in its ground attack mode it has still above average RoF.
Both are also cheap.

- Bf 110 multi-purpose aircraft
I will need to revisit that in a future playthrough: except for 1-2 maybe 3 early cases I didn't dare trying its fighter mode. Starting with the E version it hase high attack and defense. But it always lacks initiative, IMO, to be effective as a fighter. Maybe I was just too anxious or scared.

- list of untested and respectively "want-to-test" units
all "regular" infantry
Krad
Pz II Flamm
Marder II
Marder III
maybe another go at the "portee" vehicles
Bf 110
Lvl bombers
maybe something else I forgot

If there are any questions regarding particular units that I already tried or suggestions for testing, feel free to drop a message here :)



This thread received quite some views, I am currently hyped about the efile and AK is a great campaign, in short: I will start another playthrough within the next days and post in a new thread. Not 100% decided on the difficulty, yet. But I have an idea for another equipment limitation run - though much simpler and less restrictive rules than the ones above :D


Thanks for tagging along my crazy little quest and have a nice weekend everyone :)
Locarnus
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Afrika Korps (BE+A) ~~ FM, Rommel and equipment limitations

Post by Locarnus »

JanD wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:02 am 10) El Alamein ~~ DV
M14/41 vs Semovente 75
The Semovente self-propelled artillery had been available since Gazala, but its low ammo was a little scary due to supply problems in the desert. Also, the M14 had been quite good as "light" tank, weaking suppressed targets and taking out weakened targets.
But Alam Halfa, when our [12/10 strength] [Attack+3] M14 got mauled by a lonesome Crusader, showed that an upgrade was in order.
My other gripe with the Semovente is its low Soft Attack.
On the upside, the Semovente can switch to artillery mode, and then has range=2, at basically the same price as the M14.
Agreed. I read some more about the Semovente and it turns out that their crews regularly loaded considerably more ammunition than the official specifications planned for. Especially in Northern Africa there are reports that they even removed some other stuff (seats?) to fit more ammo. So the last 2022-04b bugfix patch added one more ammo for them (from 4 to 5). On the other hand, some Semovente apparently did not even have MGs, imho making the low soft attack a bit more accurate, compared to the StuG.
JanD wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:02 am Pz III L vs Pz III N
The other tank upgrade question. Lets ignore fuel and Close Defense. Fuel is comparable between the two units and CD shouldn't be the deciding factor - at least not the main factor.
The III L has Initiative+1, while the III N has Soft Attack+2 and Hard Attack+1. And that's the tricky part. I know that for aircraft, Initiative can be very important, but don't know about ground units.
The III N is also cheaper, but so far price hadn't been the issue.
Finally, the III N has Ammo-1 compared to the III L/M, however I don't remember having seen the Pz III run out of ammo prio to Alamein.
Anyway, the III L was tried and tested since Malta and had showed some feats, probably helped by its Attack heroes.
The III M is basically the same as the L, just a little more fuel and cheaper.
Initiative is also valuable for ground units (when fighting other units that shoot back), but capped at an initiative difference of 5 if I remember correctly (and dependent on terrain).
At this stage the L is probably better against tanks in open terrain, while the N is better against infantry and generally in close terrain.
JanD wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:02 am Random thoughts

Turn 8: once the damaged Pz IV was evacuated, I took the opportunity to deploy a Bersaglieri. Probably not the smartest choice, but I had no other unit.

Turn 10: with the constant stream of enemy tanks along the northern road from El Imayid to El Alamein, I decided to go on the defensive in that area with slower units and to send mobile forces down south to deal with the enemy units over there. There was also potentially more map prestige in the south
Imho the evacuation option is an often overlooked feature and it was nice to see it being used!

I'll also have to recheck those BL 5.5 inch guns, since they have range 4 with BE already. I might split them up into early versions with range 3 and later versions with range 4 (since they only used the longer range 82lb shell from 1944 onwards). Also based on the feedback by goose_2 regarding his Gazala battle.
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)
Locarnus
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Afrika Korps (BE+A) ~~ FM, Rommel and equipment limitations

Post by Locarnus »

JanD wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:50 pm 11) Kasserine ~~ MV
Random thoughts
A two pronged approach into the map, with a sneaky paratrooper attack on the distant victory hex. Infantry and lots of artillery for mountain combat.
The clear area in the center got me suspicious of a potential tank battle.
That last victory location in the north got me by surprise. I guess my planning was off, by concentrating too many forces in the west.
The paratrooper assault was really great to see. Also got some good use out of the paratrooper 10.5cm arty/pak.

Not sure why the vehicles in the center were so passive, their stance is set to "hold position(active)", so they should activate once in contact. Instead of of just sitting there waiting to be destroyed.

I guess due to the increased number of units in the center (replacing the ahistorical M10s for that scenario), it takes longer to advance North. Maybe I should increase the limit by another turn to 20 (from original 18, and 19 at 2022-04b patch)?

Perhaps the West is only valuable to that airfield, since you already used paratroopers for the Western victory hex. But the scenario should also be playable without paratrooper units.

Another option could be to gift the player a core Tiger tank at Kasserine (eg historically 501st Heavy Panzer joined Afrika Korps in late 1942). It could be an early H model, strength limited to 7. Kasserine is mostly a traffic jam anyway and there are only 2 following scenarios. Tigers are also expensive to maintain, so can be a liability as well.

And given that the campaign was designed with much cheaper Tigers and general armored units in mind, it would perhaps even account for some of the unrealistically tough opposition, eg during Mareth. I would then also cut down on the unrealistically heavy airborne reinforcements for the Tunision Bridgehead scenario. Eg making those reinforcements sub 12 ton units, which were at least believably transportable by planes of the era (instead of 60 ton Tigers...).

For the record: The player can still theoretically capture an M10 at Haidra (18,6), through that is very hard without sacrificing other objectives.
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)
Locarnus
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Afrika Korps (BE+A) ~~ FM, Rommel and equipment limitations

Post by Locarnus »

JanD wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:50 pm 12) Mareth Line ~~ MV
Random thoughts
The briefing sounded as if we should expect some evil gremlins coming to troll us, and thinking of past scenarios with lots of enemy air, I broke my rules again to bring another large caliber German AA (was cheapest). Also thought of potential AA traps, but mostly tried deploying to the rear to avoid getting attacked.
Mareth is really something. While the number of enemy units is pretty far from reality, it works within the game rules to give the player a feeling of hopelessness.
JanD wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:50 pm Turn 13-14: should have just gathered all remaining fighters and hunted down that Spitfire.

Turn 15: how was that workshop still operational behind enemy lines :lol:

AI turn 16: that's exactly the reason why I have been ignoring these portee-style units for so long, theye are just too squishy

Mareth is madness :twisted:
Maybe that workshop completing the captured tank unit could be turned into something of a side mission. An incentive to hold the front lines at that point a little bit longer, to gain the captured equipment.

Anyway, Mareth is mostly about survival of core units for the last stand at Tunisian Bridgehead. It was really great to see you achieve that main objective!
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)
Locarnus
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Afrika Korps (BE+A) ~~ FM, Rommel and equipment limitations

Post by Locarnus »

JanD wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:07 pm Actually, goose
- had even more units on the northern island
- also pulled back/was slow to land with all forces
The potentially deciding factor was the lower ammo of auxiliary ships and me being too slow to conquer ports and sending ships to resupply in the ports. Having several cruisers as additional artillery can wear down entrenchment much more easily.
Though this now makes me curious why I failed the DV in earlier playthroughs, because the lower ammo count is no excuse there.
Whoops,
maybe giving the player another turn could balance out those BE/Addon changes?
Same way that Kasserine could benefit from another turn, due to the additional vehicles and limited aircraft ranges and so on.
JanD wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:07 pm
Locarnus wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:29 pm Agreed, upgrade possibilities are not very obvious and hard to adjust to. With so many changes ongoing, I'm just very hesitant to make some graphics or so. Since those would need to be adjusted every time.
Suggestion: at the moment the multi-purpose units read something like
- Fighter -> Tac.Bomber
- Pz I -> sIG
Maybe standartizing all of them to "chassis -> different class" would make it easier. Haven't put much thought or comparison into it yet. E.g., I think for the Bisons it could be confusing if both read "Pz X -> sIG", when there is no sIG unit - for those who now the tech it might be obvious, but for those who don't... okay, suboptimal idea from my side.
I used those names to show the current upgrade family up front and the potential "switch" upgrade family second.
Though I failed to explain that in-game and I agree that "sIG" is not very descriptive. I added info in the library but should probably also add a message in the early campaign/scenario. I wish there was a way to add longer descriptions in the unit purchase screen or something like that.
JanD wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:07 pm
Locarnus wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:29 pm For now imho the best way is to load up the current equipment file with notepad++ (with the "ElasticTabstops" plugin and a font type/size that allows most of the file to be displayed horizontally).
Or alternatively loading the equipment file with Excel and "freezing rows and columns" at E3. Though changes with excel are more painful due to the data format.
Couldn't find it in the download list. Found it on github, but manual installation failed. A quick search on the forums didn't reveal a solution. In short, I'm a bit at a loss. Kind of weird, I like Notepad++
Libre office can display the efile though, too.
And ya, I tried doing some simple renaming for Italy Corps, but afterwards there were no units in the scenario :? A pity we don't have somehting like Guzman Tools for Panzer Corps.
"ElasticTabstops" plugin can be directly downloaded and installed from within Notepad++. In the German version in can be accessed via Plugins/Plugin-Verwaltung.
I also used Libre Office for some time, but found it too cumbersome to save (export) in the appropriate format. So I switched to Notepad++ when I became more familiar with the files and did not have to check back for the appropriate columns every time I did an edit.
There are more tools in this thread: https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39053
But imho most of them are for occasional, specific edits, while Excel/Libre/Notepad++ allow more of an overview and modding many entries in a short time frame.
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)
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