Grand Strategy Victory Stats and Summary
Moderators: firepowerjohan, rkr1958, Happycat, Slitherine Core
In continuing the analysis (or debate) on how balanced the GS expansion is I have a few stats that I find interesting.
Using the analysis methods above and among players with an overall winning percentage of 60% or greater the win percentages are Axis 41% and Allied 57% (with 2% draws).
For the rest, the win percentages are Axis 18% and Allied 73% (with 9% draws).
Using the analysis methods above and among players with an overall winning percentage of 60% or greater the win percentages are Axis 41% and Allied 57% (with 2% draws).
For the rest, the win percentages are Axis 18% and Allied 73% (with 9% draws).
It could be that the better players can and do beat the less experienced players when playing Axis. But I continue to think the differential within the victory stats is even more telling. There is a nice distribution of the various Axis victories (from Ultimate to Minor), but the great majority of the Allied victories are Ultimate victories. I think this suggests the need to at least consider changing the victory condition timetable for the Allies by making it somewhat more difficult to get an Allied Ultimate or Strategic victory.
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schwerpunkt
- Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:26 am
- Location: Western Australia
Having won as the axis quite a few times and scored allied ultimate victories as well, my experience is that axis ultimate defeats arise from axis players over-extending themselves or not playing the defensive aspect of the game well. I think the current victory conditions are quite reasonable, with JoeRock and Stauffenburgs recent game being good evidence of two evenly matched players getting a "minor" result. I 've just completed an actual draw with Plaid (Germany fell in April 2nd 45, but, Italy held out till May 45) who I consider to be a very good allied player.ncali wrote:It could be that the better players can and do beat the less experienced players when playing Axis. But I continue to think the differential within the victory stats is even more telling. There is a nice distribution of the various Axis victories (from Ultimate to Minor), but the great majority of the Allied victories are Ultimate victories. I think this suggests the need to at least consider changing the victory condition timetable for the Allies by making it somewhat more difficult to get an Allied Ultimate or Strategic victory.
By the way, I do think the increase in the Russian efficiency loss on German DOW, the placement of more of their better troops in striking distance of the border, and the immediate Finnish DOW will help the Axis somewhat. Barbarossa feels a bit more "right" and any such changes early in the game can have a snowball effect.
This has not been my experience in terms of the Axis necessarily overextending themselves. I scored a minor Allied victory against one of the "top tier" players. I think he may have played a bit better than I did, but I managed to pull it out. But I have played a few games with someone I consider a fairly even match, and we (barely) scored ultimate Allied victories against each other (these games actually were within sight of being only strategic victories for the Allies). I don't think the Axis overextended themselves in any of them. This was with early versions of Grand Strategy, however, before the changes I noted above. And it's hard to generalize from individual experiences. It's possible that I am/was an A-class or top-tier Allied player but only a B-class Axis player. It is certainly a very different game depending on which side you play.schwerpunkt wrote:Having won as the axis quite a few times and scored allied ultimate victories as well, my experience is that axis ultimate defeats arise from axis players over-extending themselves or not playing the defensive aspect of the game well. I think the current victory conditions are quite reasonable, with JoeRock and Stauffenburgs recent game being good evidence of two evenly matched players getting a "minor" result. I 've just completed an actual draw with Plaid (Germany fell in April 2nd 45, but, Italy held out till May 45) who I consider to be a very good allied player.ncali wrote:It could be that the better players can and do beat the less experienced players when playing Axis. But I continue to think the differential within the victory stats is even more telling. There is a nice distribution of the various Axis victories (from Ultimate to Minor), but the great majority of the Allied victories are Ultimate victories. I think this suggests the need to at least consider changing the victory condition timetable for the Allies by making it somewhat more difficult to get an Allied Ultimate or Strategic victory.
Here is end of my game vs Frank, which we finished about a week ago. Probably it should be added to stats to improve axis stats slightly 
Here we have ruined front, few good troops ready to fight (well, partly its because when I finally realise, that I will win this game at turn 102 or 103, I sent all my good troops (panzers, mechs, bombers and so on) into big offense to destroy number of soviet units and make a good show).
Anyway, this is called "axis major victory" in GS terms, while its not looking like real victory - axis will loose in next 3-5 turns or even faster.
I think its example of axis "victory" in more or less even game. When you scope axis victory you more likely to find yourself making last stand in Germany, than to conquer the world.
Also I have to say, that once you got initiative as allies, its not so easy to attack tech and organisation superior germans and make it in time, so I think game is pretty fine balanced.
Axis player have great advantage compared to real german commanders he can retreat at will, saving his troops from useless pockets. And when axis player have good sence, when to fight and when to retreat, its very difficult to beat him in time to scope allied victory, especially ultimate one, i guess.
Here we have ruined front, few good troops ready to fight (well, partly its because when I finally realise, that I will win this game at turn 102 or 103, I sent all my good troops (panzers, mechs, bombers and so on) into big offense to destroy number of soviet units and make a good show).
Anyway, this is called "axis major victory" in GS terms, while its not looking like real victory - axis will loose in next 3-5 turns or even faster.
I think its example of axis "victory" in more or less even game. When you scope axis victory you more likely to find yourself making last stand in Germany, than to conquer the world.
Also I have to say, that once you got initiative as allies, its not so easy to attack tech and organisation superior germans and make it in time, so I think game is pretty fine balanced.
Axis player have great advantage compared to real german commanders he can retreat at will, saving his troops from useless pockets. And when axis player have good sence, when to fight and when to retreat, its very difficult to beat him in time to scope allied victory, especially ultimate one, i guess.
Updated the stats and NO I didn't include my crushing victory against the AI. 
See: viewtopic.php?p=153981#153981
See: viewtopic.php?p=153981#153981