1.1 and 1.1.1 feedback and suggestions

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boulugre
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
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1.1 and 1.1.1 feedback and suggestions

Post by boulugre »

I haven't had much time to play an entire game since those 2 patches, however I wanted to throw my 2 cents of feedback :

Market : Not sure what you are trying to address with this market system and I didn't had time to explore the possibility and impact of it, but i must say my initial reaction to it was a little negative as it really doesn't fit with the story. My grief is that you can use this market from round 1 of the game : Who the heck are you trading with? On turn one you haven't meet anybody, you don't have a flourishing economy. You just have a bunch of starving settlers trying to survive on a new world and raise a society from the ground. Such a market could only exist if a large private economy exists.

Perhaps market should be opened later on or progressively opened along the tech tree.

Field training : ok it's a little nerf but it doesn't change the bottom line problem. It's still possible prior to declaring war to stake all my army, field train the heck out of them until they all become a bunch of Chuck Norris under steroid, wait a few turn to heal and then crush the world...
Field training should only be able to raise troop level to a certain level. In real life you can train troops as much as you want, until they actually experience real battle they will still be 'green' in many aspect. Also right now field training enable you to overcompensate large technology gap. You can train knights with lance and sword all their life to the top of their competence, they will still be slaughtered by a group of riflemen who just learned to aim and pull the trigger...

A few suggestions of possible change:
- Insert a maximum number of training field ops for each unit (lets say 3 level, then that unit would not be affected anymore)
- Insert a cap of level ( maybe level 5?) from which unit becomes immune to it
- Introduce the concept of 'unique ops" which would mean that a faction could only produce and have 'in stock' one field training at the time. That would limit the overall numbers of training you can do and come with the disadvantage of having to keep your army stacked for a much longer time at the same spot if you plan to do many field training. Now that I think about it, other powerful special ops could be classify as 'unique ops' in order to nerf them ( Nukes, instant heal etc)
- raise the cost of the training field
- Cap the number of unit that would be affected by a single training field

Terraforming time extend : While it's true former quickly become unnecessary as they will do all the necessary land upgrade by mid game, i don't think raising the terraforming time will bring much more to the gameplay. Now you just need to produce more formers and clearing fungus is a pain as it leaves the former nearly dead. I now it's easier to say than to do, but you should keep former busy by giving them more stuff to do...

A few humble ideas / suggestions :

- Nerf the mineral/food buildings in town and introduce 3 or 4 generations of mine and farm to be upgraded by formers on the map ( the first mine/farm would give the tile a +1, second tier +2 etc etc ) That would make former essential all along the game, keep player busy upgrading their land (which i personally love :P ) and also introduce a strategic value to land as pillaging would become a valid strategy
- Create along the tech tree a second (and third?) tier road system to move unit faster. A much needed feature in my opinion and again more work to keep former busy
- Localize the production on the map. Any tile would give 1 productions. Create a tile improvement 'factory' or 'labor camp' which raise that value an make it upgradable along the tech tree
- Create a radar tile improvement which would give vision boost and combat bonus/vs ops defense to unit in surrounding tiles. To compensate that bonus boost you could diminish the strength of the city defense building by the same amount. This would give a way to diminish city garrison strength (other than artillery and nukes) by pillaging those radars while giving much needed ops defense to fielded units.
- Give the ability to former to create mountain, hills or reverse them to flat land

That's it for now, I will play a game and test the market, tax by city and growth productions and try to leave my feedback later

Keep on the good work! :D
Apheirox
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
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Re: 1.1 and 1.1.1 feedback and suggestions

Post by Apheirox »

- Market: The Market needs to be enabled by a tech and/or by having made contact with the other civilizations.

- Field Ops: The Field Training op definitely needs more work and your suggestions are good.

- Formers: This is a general problem with the game, not just Formers - you will also have explored all of Pandora and met all factions way too quickly (even before the aliens go hostile). The game possibly needs something like a 'supply lines' concept where units can only travel a limited distance from cities until more tech is unlocked.

I like all of the suggestions you propose for making cities more closely interact with the terrain. The game needs it!
Evrett
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
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Re: 1.1 and 1.1.1 feedback and suggestions

Post by Evrett »

boulugre wrote:
Market : Not sure what you are trying to address with this market system and I didn't had time to explore the possibility and impact of it, but i must say my initial reaction to it was a little negative as it really doesn't fit with the story. My grief is that you can use this market from round 1 of the game : Who the heck are you trading with? On turn one you haven't meet anybody, you don't have a flourishing economy. You just have a bunch of starving settlers trying to survive on a new world and raise a society from the ground. Such a market could only exist if a large private economy exists.
The market seems to now need a tech that you dont get to til the very beginning of the mech area. Regarding the formers..It would be nice to know what direction the devs are taking the whole "alien planet concept". The current interaction is pretty shallow. Hard to say what should be done with terraforming without knowing how terrain matters in the big picture.
boulugre
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
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Re: 1.1 and 1.1.1 feedback and suggestions

Post by boulugre »

Evrett wrote: The market seems to now need a tech that you dont get to til the very beginning of the mech area. Regarding the formers..It would be nice to know what direction the devs are taking the whole "alien planet concept". The current interaction is pretty shallow. Hard to say what should be done with terraforming without knowing how terrain matters in the big picture.
Yup they changed the market by adding a tech in the first era that opens it and give a little bit of background which is pretty cool :P

I played a little with the market and it is an useful tool in time of crisis.

I agree for the role of the formers it has to be integrated in the larger picture. My take on this is that right now the content is really insufficient. IMO in 4X game developing your lands is a very important part of the gameplay

Concerning the add growth city production options, its good but it needs to be buffed, right now it is waaay more advantageous to produce wealth than producing growth
Apheirox
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
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Re: 1.1 and 1.1.1 feedback and suggestions

Post by Apheirox »

11 days later and most if not all of these grievances have been fixed. Keep going at this rate and Pandora shall become alltime-classic material to make SMAC green with envy! 1.1.4 is a major improvement over 1.1.2 which was a major improvement over 1.1.1 - there's no telling where this will end. :)
fortydayweekend
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Re: 1.1 and 1.1.1 feedback and suggestions

Post by fortydayweekend »

boulugre wrote:- Give the ability to former to create mountain, hills or reverse them to flat land
boulugre wrote:I agree for the role of the formers it has to be integrated in the larger picture. My take on this is that right now the content is really insufficient. IMO in 4X game developing your lands is a very important part of the gameplay
I think there needs to be some way to convert land so that it provides more minerals. At the moment you can improve plains tiles up to grassland which is cool, but basically unnecessary because there's usually way too much food around anyway. The only way to increase minerals is to grow fungus, which seems a bit weird - basically using superior technology to commit genocide on the natives and then not be able to use that superior tech to do anything different with the land other than what was already there. If that makes sense. More importantly there's an incentive to spam fungus all over the place which looks weird and is a lot of micro (especially as you have to remove improvements first).

Instead we could maybe have desert or arctic hill mines yield 3 resources, similar to plains/farms, giving formers a little bit of terraforming work and eking out a few extra minerals. If fungus was to yield 4/4 it could be ungrowable - so you'd have to keep some alive if you wanted to use it in the late-game. And/or the pollution penalty could be higher, and even applied *after* building modifiers (so there's always some pollution if you have fungus).
boulugre
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
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Re: 1.1 and 1.1.1 feedback and suggestions

Post by boulugre »

fortydayweekend wrote:
I think there needs to be some way to convert land so that it provides more minerals.
Agreed. Last 2 patches have nerfed mineral production by reducing the fix bonus of mineral building + the need in mineral has rocketed up with the necessity of building tech advancement, which are very greedy in mineral and workers. This need to be balanced somehow and giving more option to terraform land as discussed in this thread could address that.
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