Halftracks or Trucks?

[antoniocapo]

Im currently playing the GC and have all my infantry and artillery on trucks to save on replacements costs. However those halftracks sure look tempting and so cool. Unfortunately, halftracks make replacements cost more (like 30% more? not sure) and will bring the pretige soft cap up. So seeing the pros and cons of trucks vs halftracks: Trucks cost less and move 8 wheeled which on roads make them faster than halftracks. On the other side halftracks have more defense value, can attack and are all terrain vehicles meaning they can be faster than trucks on maps with little roads or bad weather. Ah! and they look cooler.

So, im still playing with an all trucks core, but feeling kind of worried if i should be instead using halftracks. Didnt like how a bomber got thru my swarm of fighters and blew my panzer grenadiers on a truck to half strength (would have been the same on a halftrack?)

In conclusion: trucks or halftracks?

[ksasaki]

halftracks are hard targets, opel blitz are soft targets. I found that most units have a better soft attack than hard attack (all bombers this is the case, sometimes they are equal), of course some tanks have better hard attack...

The replacement costs are annoying, that is why gebirgsjager are nice and even standard infantry. I can't imagine moving a HW infantry across the map without a truck.....yikes but the increased attack / initiative is awesome. Put Oleh Dir or +1 mv hero on grenadier for some serious awesome.

I guess it depends on the map, but i always change to halftracks usually once they become available; however, this ends up costing a lot for replacements. If you replace 10.5 cm gun w/ truck to 15 cm gun w/ halftrack, the total cost goes from something like 160 -> 240

bottom line though if a bomber hits your truck it's bad news no matter what kind of truck it is.

Speaking of trucks, can anyone justify using the 251/1 vs 250/1 (I can't remember which one is which). Something like 5 more fuel for 100 more prestige, seems horrible. I don't think I ever have to refuel my trucks, because their ammo always runs out first.

[El_Jairo]

I'm still in the Vanilla campaign so I don't bother with the prestige soft cap. I do find this discussion very interesting.
I would look into my air defenses to make a discision. Typically you want to protect Arti with a fighter on top, so I would say a hard half-track isn't necessary. Given there are enough roads on the map. And there are SP options to accompany your tanks.
So I would look to put my frontline troops: infantry in halfracks first, to make sure they get to the front line and are better protected.
As I see it, you should analyse your core and your strategy to determine which transport suits what uni best and take in account the implications of soft cap on prestige. On the latter this makes me incline to protect more expensive units better because replacemnts cost more but this raises the Average Prestige,... I'm really liking the fact that soft cap forces you to make choices if you don't want to have consequences you didn't plan for.

On the case of 251/1 vs 250/1:
If I remember correct the 250/1 is the newer one and more expensive. It does have half-track speed
8 but I don't remember if it has other stats which are better...
If it is only fuel and speed, I'm inclined to say that it isn't worth 100 extra prestige a pop.

[Anfield]

I find you can get away with trucks until 41. Once you start the big battles in mother Russia, the large open maps are very hard on trucks trying to keep up with the rest of your army. Now if you run a historical army your infantry divisions can be the last to up grade to trucks along with their towed guns, though historically many of these division would have had horse and trucks till the end of the war. But for sure the infantry supporting Panzer division will need halftracks.

So in game terms, yes try to switch to halftracks when you can. And if prestige is tight, rememeber you dont have to upgrade them all at the same time. But in that one year, from 41 to 42 id try to get as many into halftracks as your prestige allows.

[antoniocapo]

Good input. I guess im going to start equipping my panzergrenadiers with halftracks as im now starting the 1941 campaign with a good prestige pool. The panzer grenadiers move of only 2 means they need to be closer to the front thus they need the extra protection from halftracks. Only thing worries me is i can get greedy and start attacking with the halftracks, exposing them to greater danger

Going to keep the artillery on trucks for a while and see how it goes. Read the prestige soft cap really starts hurting from 1943 on so got to save them prestige. And im going for the cheaper halftrack version (251s) as the costlier 250 is too steep for little extra benefit, moving 8 instead of 6 isnt that great if you have to always be in range of your tanks and artillery which move slower.

[Turboheizer]

Halftracks may be more expensive than trucks, but they afford your troops more protection and more mobility. Speed can be essential in winning some scenarios. By the summer of 1942, I had all my infantry equipped with the leSPW. The bigger artillery guns need the SdKfz 7 anyway, so they can keep their trucks until being upgraded to the 17-cm-Kanone.

[endur]

Most of the below comments are based on the german army.

Due to cost reasons, I almost always go with trucks. But I'd love to know how and where other people use halftracks.

In the DLC, I usually have more turns than I need. So playing the DLC, I usually don't need Halftracks or trucks for movement 3 infantry (definitely need a vehicle for move 2 infantry).

In the regular campaign game, the scenario victory conditions are based on turn limits. Even my movement 3 infantry may need a vehicle for some of the harder scenarios.

The differences I see: truck vs. halftrack
movement type, movement speed, weapon, hard vs. soft
I almost never use the halftrack weapon (and when I do use it, I usually regret using it i.e. chase down an almost dead enemy, which then inflicts too much damage on my halftrack, or doesn't die, thereby enabling enemy to counter-attack my halftrack next turn).
movement type and speed, tends not to have a big impact
hard vs. soft: fighters hit both about the same, bombers/inf/artillery hit soft harder, tanks/at hit usually hard harder

In general, I try very hard to avoid having transports attacked. i.e. keep the transport out of spotting range of all known enemy units. This means that only enemy offensive movement will discover my transports. Sometimes putting a fighter or other aircraft over my transport to avoid strafing.

The Panzer Grenadier hero halftracks in DLC 44 west are pretty cool, but regular halftracks are so fragile, I want to keep them away from combat as much as possible.

Some of the allied halftracks are ok in combat and/or have decent aa guns.

[captainjack]

I usually use trucks up to around 1942 because they are cheaper to reinforce and overstrength. I have found that half tracks offer very little additional protection although the air defence and ability to finish off a 1 strength enemy can be useful occasionally. And the extra cost of the half track makes them a better target to the AI.

However, in DLC East the half track gives a slightly better move in rough terrain and in mud so it can be worthwhile. I rarely buy the fast halftracks as the 200 prestige cost has a big impact on overstrength and elite replacements over many scenarios, though I haven't yet gone so far as to downgrade ones awarded with special reinforcements to a conventional halftrack or truck. However, they can be useful for bridge engineers which need to be at the river when your other troops need them.

Converting infantry with a movement hero to Pioneers and Grenadiers that can then keep up, or to convert them to Gebirgsjager or normal infantry so that they can live without a truck also works pretty well. Personally I like 3 move pioneers for city seiges. This is particularly good if you have an arty piece with two move heroes to provide defensive fire, like I had last time I played AC. That's one I should have removed the truck from, as I would have saved a lot on prestige costs of reinforcement and overstrength. In AC you also get the option of the Kangaroo at 200 prestige. This offers a higher level of protection than the usual halftrack but I only ever used one and haven't worked out if it was an expensive luxury or was actually useful.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I only give trucks to flamethrower infantry (pionere), the rest get nothing. All my infantry die too quickly to get any value from transports. 88s are the only thing I would consider giving a halftrack, but then only the cheaper one

- BNC

[Forefall]

Trucks can be worth it, but in the vast majority of scenarios, over-strengthening is more valuable on infantry than a halftrack. Consider what you'd prefer, 10 str with a halftrack or 13 str without? I use trucks on 2 movement infantry and nothing for the rest. I never use halftracks. And up to 42 GC, I've only got DV, so I don't think it's necessary (although may be important for Vyazma).

Only reasons I see for halftrack is if you want all-terrain movement on an infantry unit, you are risky when using transports and place them within enemy range, or you want to protect a specific unit (maybe you got an attack+3 x3 or something).

[antoniocapo]

So many good points and counter points, darn now i feel even more undecided .

I went on and equipped my panzergreandiers on halftracks for Russia, and with lots of open terrain they get to where i want them more times than not. But i fear if they get pummeled the replacement cost is going to ruin me, i like them overstrenght to 13 as they pack quite a punch then. They are all 3 stars with attack bonus heroes, not got the lucky move hero yet. Artillery is still in trucks, as they are going to be upgraded to the 17 model that requires a new silly vehicle i dont like.

I also have a couple mountain troops on foot and the awesome Oleh Dir that doesnt need any inefficient way of transport except its own godly ankle wings.

By the way i have a Parachute unit, its great for assaulting entrenched positions and rapid strategic redeployment, but on foot sometimes gets lost in the rear. The parachute is a mix of wow and bleh. It hits hard and very cheap to elite replace and overstrenght (it got no transport) Should i upgrade the parachute?

[captainjack]

BNC - it sounds like you make all your troops walk everywhere, including the artillery.
10/10 for comittment to fitness, but aren't they too tired to fight when they get there?

But then perhaps I'm just spoiling my troops by buying fancy trucks ...

PS
How's the WW1 mod going? I'm looking forwards to giving it a go when I've finally ot through the DLC Easts.

[Anfield]

I only give trucks to flamethrower infantry (pionere), the rest get nothing. All my infantry die too quickly to get any value from transports. 88s are the only thing I would consider giving a halftrack, but then only the cheaper one

- BNC

I notice alot of people say that on here and I dont get it. In my games I run close to 10-14 infantry units. I never use pioneers (look at the Anfield Army Men thread, I dont think there are any German pioneers in there cause i really never use them so never skined them lol) unless a reg infantry gets a +1 movement, those i make Grenadiers. And up until the end of 43 I never lose any unless I make a mistake. Use of terrain, artillery backing and not rushing I think is key.

But as I said above, by 42 all are in halftracks for the most part, Russia is to big to walk lol

[BiteNibbleChomp]

BNC - it sounds like you make all your troops walk everywhere, including the artillery.
10/10 for comittment to fitness, but aren't they too tired to fight when they get there?

But then perhaps I'm just spoiling my troops by buying fancy trucks ...

PS
How's the WW1 mod going? I'm looking forwards to giving it a go when I've finally ot through the DLC Easts.

What use is artillery when it is in pieces inside an Opel? And anyway, if none of the men have trucks (except tanks), what are they to know better?

WWI is set for 15th March, and I only have 5 more scenarios to make. No transports in it though (1/2 the levels are in trenches or where you defend - there's no real point!) There is a 10 scenario "shell" beta out that is missing briefings and a few sounds that I have released, in case you finish the DLCs too quickly (don't surrender to the Russians yet, Ludendorff isn't ready!)

- BNC

[koala404]

No transports is almost as viable as trucks unless you are playing a map with a great road network. I have about 6-8 3-move infantry that I use pretty much always, and a few truck mounted guys that never seem to get deployed unless the map looks long and paved. The small increase in prestige is okay for the more expensive infantry, but for the cheaper infantry is probably not worth the bother.

I found the 251 to be a bit of waste for infantry. I use it for arty and AT, but most of my choices are quickly into other halftracks like the SdkFz 7 anyway, so there's not a real choice to be made here.

The 250 is just so expensive, you need a real means of making it worthwhile. An infantry with a spotting hero - perhaps you use the extra move from the 250s to put it into forests out of the enemy's vision just to spot, but then the unit doesn't attack - that's a big loss of value just to get a better spotting option. For some AT/AA you might need it to reposition, but then I find most of my options there aren't 250/251 friendly anyway. If you get a hero with +attack or +defence, it can seriously change the way you use these units too. +defence might encourage you to use an Inf with a 250 as a sort of recon vehicle - it will take damage, but could get into the right spot to make it worthwhile. A +attack hero can make an inf into a 'light tank' or sorts, capable of finishing off units at a fair distance, which can be worthwhile, but generally only so long as you can do so and remain out of spotting (swatting) range for the inevitable counter-attacks.

[captainjack]

For a while I made an effort to use towed AT guns so that when Elefant or Jagdpanther came in I had a few 3* At ready for upgrading. But now I have largely given up on towed AT as the self propelled ones allow you to return fire if caught on the move. On roads the AC portee-mounted AT can manage speed 8, though most of the Axis self propelled AT is move 5, so the 8 speed half track could sometimes be useful for getting into position.

[antoniocapo]

Been trying 3 move infantry with no trucks or halftracks, so far been great. If i need a big move i can use railroad or air transport.