Act3 Missions Feedback

[Kerensky]

Because there are an abundance of scenarios in the game, I feel it wouldn't be a good idea to give each individual scenario it's own thread, as we may have seen done in past Panzer Corps DLC. It would flood the forum very quickly, so instead I'll be using this thread to track and post changes and updates to all Act3 scenarios. This way, our testers can keep an eye on what to look out for when and if something changes. Feel free to contribute your feedback to this thread if you have comments about anything Act3 related!

[Kerensky]

CampScen21.whscn Battle on the Stygies
Fixed victory trigger detection
Add more Salamander AUX units

CampScen22.whscn
Fixed victory trigger detection

CampScen23.whscn
Fixed victory trigger detection

CampScen25.whscn The Final Death Mire
Fixed victory trigger detection

[vadersson]

Ok, since everyone else seems to be doing Act 2, I started Act 3.

I just finished the first mission. This seemed REALLY easy. I did take quite a few loses, but overall the battle was steadily won by the Imperial forces. There were some specific feedback:
1. The terrain on the map is hard to tell apart. The different levels of "dead" forest were difficult to distinguish and my troops could not get to places I thought they should.
2. The terrain is very blocking given how many vehicles you have. It was VERY hard to maneuver my vehicles near all the city, trees, hill, and rivers.
3. You start with too much resource. I requested 3 Warlord titans right away. (And they really did not seem that effective either.)
4. You start with a lot of armor in the north, but the objective up there can only be reached by Infantry. It would be better to have some more Infantry there.
5. The Orks seem to have given up about half way through. They pretty much stopped attacking. Overall the orks killed off a lot of the infantry I had and then just sat there while my tanks crushed them. They never attacked the tanks, even with Lootas.
6, Weirdboyz did nothing and were really a waste. You need to give them some funky psyker powers to make them at least interesting. Right now they are pure cannon fodder.
7. Ork battle fortresses seem really powerful. They don't seem to do more damage, but they take more damage than even a squad of Baneblades. May be as intended.
8. Titans are 'meh'. The Titans did not do much, even with 3 Warlord added to the force. They just don't seem to be able to do the massive damage I expected from these giant war machines.
9. Being able to fire multiple Deathstrike missiles (i.e. each turn) seems odd based on 40K.

My verdict is that this mission is too easy as is. The toughest part is moving around the map. I think the map and the forces used need some reconsideration. Really need to cut the amount of resources available at the start of the scenario. One thing that might help is to either open up the terrain some or reduce the total forces on both sides. The ork attack logic also needs reviewed.

Hmm, that all sounds a bit harsh. Don't get me wrong, it was still fun. I just want to help get things as good as possible.

Thanks,
Duncan

[Galdred]

The warlord titans have only 2 weapons. They should have 4. No wonder their firepower is lacking. Try editing the unit file to add them 2 other titan weapons (Laser Blaster or Gatling Blasters?)
The quake cannon is pretty underwhelming because it has only one shot (it should have a small blast, so more than 1 shot).
How did you manage to get 3 Warlords? They don't appear on my purchase screen (Only Reavers and Warhounds).

[vadersson]

Turns out those were Reaver Titans. My bad.

So I played A3M2 where you have to cross the bridges. This seemed a lot better than scenario 1. The crossing of bridges is not too bad overall but still a nice challenge.

The Orks are not nearly aggressive enough. They tend to shoot at squishy targets like infantry. Most of my heavy vehicles only get shot at when they take retaliation fire. They certainly don't feel like battle hungry orks. I also think orks may need a boost in melee and seek to engage in melee more. I really think we need to see more infantry charges from the orks. They just are not ork-y enough.

Overall the feel of this mission was good. There is still way too much resources floating around. I really reduces my concerns about losses. I lost a total of 8 units during this mission, but they were all easily replaceable at the start of the next.


I did notice a bug. At the start of mission 3, during the deploy phase, the Aircraft button is grayed out. But if you hit the all button, you can buy vendettas and other flyers.

Thanks,
Duncan

[duckEfuzz]

ACT 3 first mission

Firstly I've tried to add the text file, but am unable to. If you want to give me some tips on how to post a text file or a private email I'll send it to you.

Overall I enjoyed the mission, it was a little to easy for the 3rd round of campaign scenario's I think probably because the AI wasn't as ruthless as it could be. Possibly because of the need to split forces it would be nice to have a flanking aggressive ork force. Otherwise maybe more ork forces generally would toughen things up. (I lost 2 guard squads, tempest land speeder unit, leman russ unit, purchased assault squad, purchased scout squad). All completed on turn 20.

The frustration for me was lack of transport for the pre selected units e.g devastator squad, terminator squad, which again is an argument for being able to completely choose your army prior to the campaign which after seeing the massive choice on the purchase screen is really appealing. (I hope that becomes an option on full release)

The only bug (maybe) I saw was when i entered the ork camp on the south eastern part of the map neither my dreadnaught nor later my terminators could move directly west (white move dots not showing for W,NW,SW) , only north on the road or south swinging west after a move south.

As I get time I'll repost for mission 2!

[duckEfuzz]

Just noticed the ability to upgrade my units with transports whilst in the deployment screen! perfect!

[duckEfuzz]

OK played mission 2.

now I cheated quite a bit for fun and altered my units to something preferable to me and in total with the upgrades bought about 7 more units (all totalling about 1000 points extra inc upgrades) and of course walked the scenario in 10 out of 21 turns with 2 units lost. I know its not that helpful to you but I thought id report all my games because you never know....
the only bug I found was the loss of the salamander storm raven without the graphics e.g just disappeared (it seemed unlikely to lose as well, prob -1 to -6 in favour to me)

I will play again without cheating. I'm not sure how much spare cash we'll have at that point of the campaign though?

Also not sure if your planning this but supply lines would be good to stop mass refitting/reinforcement. I think another aspect of feeling connected to your forces is the feeling that every man is costly.

[produit]

Bug in delivrance of Infernus, (scen 3). I got no refugee to save during the whole map. Moreover, if I captured the enemy VP, the color remained in brown. I don't know if it is linked (such as a bad trigger).

In addition, I starting perhaps to feel what is missing in this game: a gradation in the units you use and a real goal for the next map. Now, I am playing only with über-units:
- 3 reaver titans for scouting (impossible to destroy them, thus you can keep them in front, but they are really not good for destroying anything)
- 5 Shadowswords (to destroy enemy big armored units)
- 6 blood angels Land-riders to kill all enemy units (Helios for tanks and Crusader against infantry. Tested also Achilles but was less impressed)
- 4 Space marines units (Terminators with Assault Cannon)
- 6 human artillery (3 Basilik and 3 Deathstrike)
- 1 Hellfire dreadnought that I don't want replace because it was at max exp.

In the end, I can buy this units without "gaining" them. I remember that in Final Liberation, you had to make some missions to liberate a Warlord Titan, you got a small movie about the Titan and then you were able to use it, making me feel that I really earned it. You could also choose on a map the different missions, making you decide if you want to go for the Titan or for another unit.
Here, you can buy all the best units without limits. An in terms of cost, there is no interest of buying "cheaper units", like Leman Russ tanks, because they cost more, as you loose them. With Titan, Land-Riders, or Shadowswords, you never have to replace them. They don't die and are replenished for the next battle. Moreover, even if you loose a Shadowsword, the unit remains useful. Steel Legion infantry at 30% are useless.

In the end, it is like in PC in the 45 DLC, you use only Tiger II, without using anything else. However, in PC, you had to wait for 5 years before getting them, thus a feeling of achievements. Here, for the whole Act2 and Act3, you can keep the same army, reducing the variation.

Perhaps high end units (imperial titan and super tanks (Macharius and above), all space marine units) should be given to the player for conditions (well fought battle, secondary objective captured, etc.) and should not be able to buy. You could perhaps upgrade them (from shadowsword to an upgraded version of the shadowsword), but never buy or change the tank. That will make you get attached to the units, like when I was getting new prototypes in PC).

Moreover, this notion of achievement as to be also there for enemy units. As an example, I killed Herman von Strab by "mistake", without noticing who he was before getting the victory screen. He should be on the most protected area in a special building, behind layers of troops.

Likewise, I killed Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka, without noticing it first (completely alone, smaller unit, not really noticeable). It should make you feel that you had to fight to get to him and you should see him directly.

I hope that my remarks can help you to make this game even better.

[produit]

Finished last mission. Victory on turn 15/30. No losses... I used the same army as before. No problems at all.
Ending the campaign is really strange. It should be the high point of the campaign. The map is huge and enemies numerous. That is good. But after the victory, you have what, 1 small discussion with the inquisitor... No word of Space-Marines chapter commanders or Yarrick ? It should be the high-end of the campaign... It is a quick end I really dislike when playing a game like this one.

Concerning Titan, I tested the other titan. Really worse than a shadowsword. Titans should be buffed up a lot (3-4x times more firepower), but should only be offered and not be bought. Thinking on the whole campaign, it would also be nice if you used triggers a bit more. You could simulate a space-marine space-drop with the apparition of 10-20 space marine units arriving in the middle orks), given for example that you captured a special victory point (such as a relay station). It would make act 2 and 3 less linear.

[zakblood]

also just finished last mission, again like act 2 it's a lot shorter campaign than act 1 was, not that i have played act 1 as yet, just ran through it once for looks and size...

same comments as act 2, you need to limit the number of tanks one side can field or this game is far too one sided and far too easy...

i consider myself a poor player and to do both act 2 and 3 well surprised myself, yes cheated with maps and stuff but still wasn't a challenge at all, but was fun to do...

if limits where put on tanks then i think i may have had a harder time, even with editor maps etc, but how much is any ones guess really....

turn time and saves all work great, same as auto ones, no real errors found and games very stable...

not a lot or replay value either, as no new stuff each time you play, it's all scripted, AI can be dumb at times, with no real single unit attacks to wipe that unit out, most attacks go in by the Orc's and then they move off and attack another target so you don't get worn down and have time to replenish and recover / heal etc...

AI turn time is very quick, for me too quick as some units neither move or attack, it's funny watching a squad of Orc's guard something when you are out of there range to return fire so you can just repeat hit them for no return fire or support...

Orc's are meant to be dumb i guess, but if they can build planes and tanks, they can't be that dumb

so still for me some work to do with the AI scripts to make it more believable and for me also harder, if a slider was in the game for difficulty, then how it is now would be ok for tutorial or easy play, with medium difficulty having more points and units for Orc's, and hard having even more...

i hear a lot about Orc hordes but in ths game there is none so must be lord of the rings Orc's, as Orc's so far seen in here don't out number you enough, if they are going to have a high % of lighter troops, then they need to have more of them

[vadersson]

Just played some more Act 3. The mission before the docks mission.

1. Is there no branching during the campaign of Act 3? I have not seen a branch or choice of target yet.
2. The map for this mission has three large peaks surrounding a crater in the middle. This is really a tough place to get through. Might want to remove the right most peak to allow another path of attack. Or keep it challenging like it is (and unlike the AI...)
3. There is some bad text in the briefing after this mission (before the docks mission.) The Inquisitor says that if the orks get away via boats, it will "take years and of lives to" find them. I assume that is suppose to be hundreds or thousands of lives. I have a screen shot, but I am having trouble saving it tonight.

Overall, I am actually becoming more bored and disappointed with the game as I progress. There is so much requisition that I could buy and all titan army if I wanted. The Orks NEVER attack and rarely even shoot at me. I had advanced a Titan and it was surrounded by 2 Battlefortresses! They both moved over to find some infantry to shoot at. Of all the Titans, Superheavys, Tanks, Dreadnaughts, and Infantry I had, the Orks ALWAYS fired on the infantry if the could and then tanks and Dreadnoughts. The Superheavys and Titans took NO fire except for retaliation. Many Ork turns, the Orks did NOTHING. That is really BORING. The Multiple Supa-Kannons and Kill Kannons in the mission never even fired. Something is wrong when a Supa-Kannon won't even take a long range shot. I was in range several times and spotted by other units I was fighting.

Something needs to be done about the AI or people will not really want to play this game. Right now, this is about as challenging as some of the Free to Play phone games. (Actually some of them are more challenging.) Very disappointing...

Thanks,
Duncan

[Kerensky]

Bug in delivrance of Infernus, (scen 3). I got no refugee to save during the whole map. Moreover, if I captured the enemy VP, the color remained in brown. I don't know if it is linked (such as a bad trigger).

Good find, I'll make sure that gets addressed!

[Kerensky]

Just played some more Act 3. The mission before the docks mission.

1. Is there no branching during the campaign of Act 3? I have not seen a branch or choice of target yet.
2. The map for this mission has three large peaks surrounding a crater in the middle. This is really a tough place to get through. Might want to remove the right most peak to allow another path of attack. Or keep it challenging like it is (and unlike the AI...)
3. There is some bad text in the briefing after this mission (before the docks mission.) The Inquisitor says that if the orks get away via boats, it will "take years and of lives to" find them. I assume that is suppose to be hundreds or thousands of lives. I have a screen shot, but I am having trouble saving it tonight.

Overall, I am actually becoming more bored and disappointed with the game as I progress. There is so much requisition that I could buy and all titan army if I wanted. The Orks NEVER attack and rarely even shoot at me. I had advanced a Titan and it was surrounded by 2 Battlefortresses! They both moved over to find some infantry to shoot at. Of all the Titans, Superheavys, Tanks, Dreadnaughts, and Infantry I had, the Orks ALWAYS fired on the infantry if the could and then tanks and Dreadnoughts. The Superheavys and Titans took NO fire except for retaliation. Many Ork turns, the Orks did NOTHING. That is really BORING. The Multiple Supa-Kannons and Kill Kannons in the mission never even fired. Something is wrong when a Supa-Kannon won't even take a long range shot. I was in range several times and spotted by other units I was fighting.

Something needs to be done about the AI or people will not really want to play this game. Right now, this is about as challenging as some of the Free to Play phone games. (Actually some of them are more challenging.) Very disappointing...

Thanks,
Duncan

I'm confident we'll have these issues sorted for 1.0. Aggressive price adjustment and expanded difficulty levels should go a long way here.

[Kerensky]

Gunships are not air units, they are classified as vehicles.

It looks like act3 needs a good deal of fine tuning, point numbers are extremely high for some reason, and while this would normally be okay, they are too high for default difficulty. Maybe on easiest difficulty setting, but not default.

[Kerensky]

Don't say we didn't listen to your feedback! Still need to test these proposed changes, but they look like...

Changed act3 points alottment to about half of what it used to be (around 9000 now)

Add several bands of attack AI orks in all scenarios of act3

scen 20
group of 5, 5, and 7 attacking orks added

scen 21
group of 5, 6, and 8 attacking orks added

scen 22
group of 4, 4, 4, and 10 attacking orks added

scen 23
group of 5, 5, and 11 attacking orks added

scen 24
group of 6 and 7 attacking orks added

scen 25
Turn limit increased to 35
group of 6, 6, 6, and 15 attacking orks added

[zakblood]

upload them, then lets try them...

as days are ticking down now

[vadersson]

I think those changes will make it much better. That said, you still need to tune the AI about it not firing at anything but infantry.

Thanks,
Duncan

[zakblood]

i don't mind the not firing except at infantry thing, that makes sense if only infantry can take stuff, so you the war on casualties but lose on victory points not taken as the Orc's have taken out the only ability to take them, that's smart, but i guess it was a mistake and not planned that way or like that was it