Tips for the Devs

[Dimokito]

I would like to collect some tips for the Devs so they make their future games better.

I like W40KA but it lacks some points to make it feel its a PC Game from the Year 2014. And this points are also the reason I only like the game instead of loving it.

Understanding the game:

• The Basic Tutorial you have is not enough for this game. It explains the details of the game not deep enough.
  I never feel like I'm in controll of my Army cause I never know how the game will respond to my Actions

• The Manual is not enough

• You need better Tooltips

Presenting the game:

• There are no animations in this game. The fire coming out of a Unit is not an animation. The Units feel like cardboards. They don't move and they don't fire. They lack of soul.
  I don't expect graphics like in Dawn of War. Just some tiny walk and firing animations to make them feel real

• No Animation for melee Attacks

• Same goes for the Cardboardfaces in the Cutscenes. They are lifeless soulless creatures.

• Deathanimations - NEW

• Different Appearance for hurt/almost destroyed units - NEW

Other:

• VSync Option

I'm sorry to say this: But my points make it feel like profit maximization. There are so many small Indie Studios that have a way better presentation than your games.

[zakblood]

all feedback is good feedback and most if not all with get replies, so thanks for the input

[JimmyC]

I quite like the firing animations - in fact i was more than happy with them. Agree that its a big letdown not to have movement animations and close combat animations though. I disagree regarding the rest of your presentation points though (with no opinion re. vsynch as i dont have a problem with that on my pc).

I agree with all your "understanding the game" points.

Does the forum allow a poll or voting function? It could be worth for someone to compile all the suggestions and then users can vote if they agree or disagree?

[rezaf]

Unfortunately, most of these things would have to be addressed very early in the beta and are now extremely unlikely to change.
If enough of us PC players lobby for it, maybe we get some UI improvements and a better manual.
An improved tutorial is already fantasyland. Same for better briefings (what you call cutscenes) or even unit animations.
Since getting to seamless zooming required a full engine rewrite anyhow, I don't really understand why they didn't at least implement movement frames in the engine, even if they can't make use of it just now due to the assets being too expensive (I guess that must be the reason?). But Rudankort has a very strict approach of implementing no stuff he will not absolutely need (this greatly hampered PzC modding capabilities) so ... yeah, that's how it is. We're not going to change it.

A suggestions for the devs thread should thus limit itself to stuff that's realistic, imo.
_____
rezaf

[Dimokito]

@rezaf: I don't expect them to implement this tips tomorrow.

But they should think about how a game should behave and present today. (maybe for an Addon, a Patch or a future game)
As it is, it's not enough to reach a bigger audience. And W40KA is their chance to reach a bigger audience.

I'm sure it will sell well and I will have many happy hours with it but it still lacks soul.

[rezaf]

As it is, it's not enough to reach a bigger audience. And W40KA is their chance to reach a bigger audience.

Well, you only get one chance to make a first impression. Check out Slaarth's posts, and I presume many seasoned Wh40k guys will be similarly disappointed when they find out how utterly different Armageddon behaves from the ruleset they know and love. There goes a large chunk of your "bigger audience".
Because, outside of those loving Wh40k because they play the tabletop, I think there's actually a larger potential audience at large for WW2 games than there is for Wh40k games.

So, I still feel there's a place for a thread with realistic, small scope improvements we request from the developers.
But tips for sequels or future games? I'm sure the one thing a seasoned developer finds himself longing for is people who have no idea about the realities of developing a game armchair-designing future mechanics for him... (in other words, this premise would ensure no developer would read the thread, much less continue doing so over a prolonged period of time)
_____
rezaf

[generalgonzo]

This time I waited with a 1st day buy and say what - guess it was a good decision.
I like Slitherine and the games they make and have a lot of them, but I´m also fan of the Warhammer franchise and in this, they failed making a game which satisfies this audience. I already have Panzer Corps - a great gaem - but dislike playing it again with Warhamer skins....

A disappointed fan!

[Slaarth]

Give everyone a refund or offer them a copy of panzer corps instead.

I for one want a refund!!!

Ask for your REFUND if your a 40k fan.

don't accept fakes

[lordzimoa]

No problem guys, we can never please everybody...

This being said there are still a lot of things and improvements coming, it was the initial release, there is always room for improvement and we will support and expand this game series for some years to come.

[generalgonzo]

Ok, I guess, I will be wait a bit till I get this one. Maybe with some patches the game gets a bit more diversity in comparison to PzC!

[sdeix75]

ive been a fan of GW for many years and remeber this is more like Epic which GW doesnt run anymore and once you get used to the combat mechanics (though requisition and XP iam a little unsure of) the game is Frig'n Awesome
i luv it
oh an Panzer corp was awesome too

[Caveman]

I agree with the lack of infos about the game mechanics. I played it like PC and I suck... and often I don't know why...

• There are no animations in this game. The fire coming out of a Unit is not an animation. The Units feel like cardboards. They don't move and they don't fire. They lack of soul.
  I don't expect graphics like in Dawn of War. Just some tiny walk and firing animations to make them feel real

• No Animation for melee Attacks

From a modding point of view: r u nuts?
Fun aside, I really think this is about having nice 3D-graphics / much more sprites, or opening the game up for easy modding. In a 40k game with just three factions (Imp, Ork, SM), I would always go for easy modding

[Slaarth]

lordzimoa » 27 Nov 2014 10:24
No problem guys, we can never please everybody...

I'm not hard to please, i play quite a few fre to play browser games and such but i go into thos expecting not much.

when you throw around the Armaggedon title and Warhammer 40k then comes with it certain expectations and on that front you epic failed so bad even kittens want to kill themselves.

As for a stand alone game it has it's own merits, so rather than try and label me as a hard to please type which your obviosuly doing lordzimoa as now you have responded on every thread i've posted about me but you haven't attempted to answer any of the points i've rasied, you keep trying to spin it into a positive lights. so let me make this really clear

WITH THE TITLE OF WARHAMMER 40K - ARMAGGEDON YOU LURED PEOPLE INTO THIS GAME AND FAILED AND NOW TRYING TO AVOID QUESTIONS WHICH ONLY MAKES YOU LOOK EVEN WORSE AS TRYING TO DENY THE TRUTH.

AS A STAND ALONE GAME WITHOUT MY BELOVED 40K NAMES AND TITLES I GUESS IT COULD BE A REASONABLE GAME.

Does that express my stance clearly now?

I can happily express some concerns on the game itself if it wheren't for the fact your dragging my beloved image of 40K through the mud with this title.

this isn't 40k and plays nothing even closing like it, and when you have infantry that can move as far as they can fire i beg the question what kinda useless weapons are they using?

[M0rbid]

Yes, animation of moving and fighting and manual please.

[Caveman]

@Slaarth:
You bought via steam? Please contact steam about a refund or offer the game in the steam marketplace... you made your point clear here. No need to troll around in every topic. Please go on with your life.

[lordzimoa]

Hi Slaarth I PM`ed what to do for a Stream refund and we have no problem venting your disappointment, you made you own thread about it, so please don`t spam all the other topics and keep it concentrated in that one.

We get your point now back to topic:

Yes guys, we have some improvements coming and some stuff on our list to add, I cannot go into details, but we will support and improve the game series for some years to come.

Being it in improving the UI, adding some features we still have planned, updating the game based on your feedback... Maybe not all suggested will be done or is feasible, but this release is more the end of the beginning and not the beginning of the end for this game series.

[Slaarth]

Hi Slaarth I PM`ed what to do for a Stream refund and we have no problem venting your disappointment, you made you own thread about it, so please don`t spam all the other topics and keep it concentrated in that one.

We get your point no back to topic:

Yes guys, we have some improvements coming and some stuff on our list to add, I cannot go into details, but we will support and improve the game series for same years to come.

Being it in improving the UI, adding some features we still have planned, updating the game based on your feedback. Maybe not all suggested will be done or feasible, but this release is more the end of the beginning and not the beginning of the end for this game series.

well actually you lie

From: lordzimoa
To: Slaarth
Only Steam can decide, we cannot influence this, so best go here and follow the instructions:

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_art ... -WCVM-3883


Good luck.

You can tell steam to authorise the refund and you can adjust the marketing on steam as to not mislead future purchasers and the link you gave me to follow up on this is for phsyical goods, anyone who clicks on that link can see what i'm talking about.

Now regarding Steam Refund Policy

As with most software products, unless required by local law, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games, DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client. Please review Section 3 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.

so i'm gonna ask you get steam to authorise the refund or as per local Australian Consumer Law, the item you have sold isn't what is being marketed, as such i have 3 options, 1 Refund, 2 Replacement, 3 Repair.

since options and 2 and 3 aren't viable i'm being forced to take option 1.

more importantly this shows how the ceo of the company is more than happy and say good luck with m8 with a smug smile knowing how his portion of the $30US i paid is being sent to companies account, where is he doesn't realise that Australia protects it's people by making sure our consumer laws also cover internet purchases.

by buying it through steam i also have the advanatge of the Australian consumer commission will aos put pressure on steam which in turn will put pressure on slitherine.

so it's easy i'm pissed as being ripped off, either provide the refund or authorise Steam to do it or you force me to make this painful and if thats the case being retired i got more than plenty of time to make this painful.

If you think you getting my money without a fight by selling me rubbish thats not what is being marketed then you have no idea.


this experience reminds of me being in Venice, Italy and there ebing a lovely store with hand painted sculptured plates and there not my thing but my granmas, the ones on display where lovely when when i tried to get it off the hook it was chained on the sotre owner came over and said here i have on in the box, and asked for the cash, before i'd pay for it, i opened it to make sure it was the right plate and as well painted and what do i find? Poorly machine painted crap my 6 year old neice could do better. when i told the sotre owner no i dont' wnat this i want what your displaying or nothing he wanted nonthing to do wioth me making out i was trouble maker.

Now this is exactly the same kinda response i'm gettting from you lordzumoa

[Dimokito]

I feel some people are taking this discussion in the wrong direction.

I would love to collect Tips in this thread to avoid long faces in the future of Slitherine Games. I didnt want to come in here and start flaming.

@Devs:You guys know how to make good games. You just don't know how to present them (Tutorial/Manual/Graphics/Animations/Advertising).

Look at the Hearthstone Blogs for Goblins vs Gnomes. Thats how you hype a game. You could easily achieve the same for a title like W40K Armageddon. Cause its W40K!
More communication! More Community! Those Youtubevideos and Twitchstream were a good start but are not enough!

BTW I forgot sth:

- Deathanimations
- Different Appearance for hurt/almost destroyed units

[lordzimoa]

Slaarth I did not lie, I just PM`ed you the wrong link and have in the mean time send you the correct one, this is your last warning or we ban you from this forum

[lordzimoa]

@Devs:You guys know how to make good games. You just don't know how to present them (Tutorial/Manual/Graphics/Animations/Advertising).

Well you put it a bit black and white here to be honest, But let me just say that within the timeframe we had, it was the maximum we could do. It was not ideal we realise, but sometimes it is what it is. Second is PR, although kicking in late, there is plenty of that still coming.

On the game itself don`t forget Rome was not build in a day eg. Panzer Corps we patched and updated 23 times in 3 years, largely based on customer feedback, so we are not done yet. A game is never really done...

You can work forever on a game, but we have also many constraints as deadlines, contracts, economic reality to worry about, the game is more than good enough to be released, but development is far from over.

So put your wishlists together and I`me pretty sure you will see much more coming, again this is a game series that will span over quite a few years.