The many ways to lose as the Allies

[jarg1]

I though I would start a topic to share a few of the particulars of my multiple losing experiences as the Allies, and specifically the most common situations where I blew it. It's been noted elsewhere that the game is very unfriendly to Allied mistakes, with a single misstep potentially leading to a German victory. Which isn't to say that the Germans can't similarly err, for example by forgetting to secure their supply lines (ah, I do love when that happens) but that it seems to occur less frequently. So here goes nothing:

1) Leaving a single infantry to defend any part of a line in front of the Meuse open to an attack by the 1st SS. It has happened to me more than once. Even an elite infantry can disappear when this happens, leaving the Meuse to be crossed immediately if an elimination occurs, and a big gap that is easily exploited if the unit survives but retreats. When this happens, it's usually time to watch the panzers zip by and over the horizon. Incidentally, this also holds true if you are defending behind the Meuse.

2) Trying anything fancy around Arlon against a competent opponent. If the German moves a significant force to the south, the Allies need to find a way to keep the few units in that area intact if they want those Arlon reinforcements in time to make a difference. Actually, if the German really really wants to kill them, he usually can though it certainly slows him down significantly elsewhere. I have lost several games after trying to use the southern Allied units for any purpose other than sitting together in Arlon or close by.

3) Giving up Verviers and Bastogne. When the German starts banking those 4 VPs plus the 2 VPs for Spa and St. Vith., the game is going to be over before you know it. There's a slight chance you might get lucky and kill enough of his units in time to save yourself, but don't hold your breath on that one. If he also marches into Marche, you can start preparing your "Thanks for the game, I suck" message.

And those are my first thoughts. I'll add more if they occur to me. And I hope others will share their similar experiences, and I welcome any feedback as to how I might better mitigate these potential failures.

[Jamus1972]

I presume that you mean giving up Verviers and Bastogne?

In that case I agree, however, I would also add:

4) Not giving up Bastogne (and thereby being cut-off and dying shortly thereafter).

[jarg1]

I presume that you mean giving up Verviers and Bastogne?

In that case I agree, however, I would also add:

4) Not giving up Bastogne (and thereby being cut-off and dying shortly thereafter).

I have not idea what you are talking about Correction made. And thanks for item 4.

[jarg1]

5) I just experienced another Allied loss which reminded me of another not uncommon way to lose, which is to have below average rolls on one or more of the limited number of counterattacks available after the reinforcements arrive on the 22nd. In my latest loss, I put together an attack force of 3 armor totalling 19 strength points, attacked the weakest target available in the German line, and retreated all three defenders. Oops, game over. A big downside to the relatively fewer opportunities the Allies have to pick up VPs via kills, meaning chance plays a greater role in their possibility of winning.

[Meta Bagel]

Totally agree! It is very easy to lose as the Allies due to 1 or 2 critical mistakes. Also, when the reinforcements come in, the armor is so spread out, it takes time to organize it into an effective fighting force. Meanwhile, the Axis continues to accrue VPs. As mentioned above in this thread, if the Axis has Verviers, it is all over.

Conversely, it's quite easy to win as the Axis, even against an experienced opponent.

[Meta Bagel]

I think the easiest way to give the Allies a fighting chance is to add at least 5 VPs to the Axis victory conditions, starting on the 22nd or thereabouts. I like the early game for the Allies, but I feel there's almost no way to win against a reasonably competent Axis opponent. Especially since the Allies have very little armor with which to counter-attack in the mid-game, and it is highly dispersed. There is virtually no late-game, because the game generally ends before the Allies can get a full head of steam.

[AikiPhil]

This is an interesting thread! As I said in another thread, I think one of the hardest things for the allies is that you have to make critical decisions on the first day with no useful information on which to base them. There are certain 'best' moves to make as allies for each of the attack strategies that the axis have. But there's no way of knowing so it just ends up being luck. You can't even wait a little to decide because if you don't move straight away then options will be removed from you.

For example I can very effectively thwart an Axis advance through Bastogne if certain things hold true, but it's impossible if the axis player makes a concerted attack in that direction. It's critical to try and guess the broad strategy the axis player will take as soon as possible especially if he's going straight for the Meuse. But there's so little information to base this on in the beginning.

Regarding 1) above. Yes, this has happened to me, especially with regard to Huy which is a nightmare. I absolutely try and save as many of the starting CCRs as I can and always pair elite infantry with armour wherever possible to get the extra -1 that comes from this. It can make all the difference. Annoyingly to effectively defend Huy you usually have to give up Marche which I think is one of the most important spaces on the whole map.

With 3), I don't think I've ever lost Verviers and Bastogne. I will hold onto Verviers at all costs as that's where most of the reinforcements come from. Most experienced axis players never go for Verviers anyway as whilst it's doable, the cost always ends up being too high because of the clear terrain. I don't remember the last game I played as Axis where I went for Verviers.

Point 5). Yep, agree completely. One bad result that causes significant damage to the two big elite allied armour means it's pretty much game over.

[jarg1]

This is an interesting thread! As I said in another thread, I think one of the hardest things for the allies is that you have to make critical decisions on the first day with no useful information on which to base them. There are certain 'best' moves to make as allies for each of the attack strategies that the axis have. But there's no way of knowing so it just ends up being luck. You can't even wait a little to decide because if you don't move straight away then options will be removed from you.

For example I can very effectively thwart an Axis advance through Bastogne if certain things hold true, but it's impossible if the axis player makes a concerted attack in that direction. It's critical to try and guess the broad strategy the axis player will take as soon as possible especially if he's going straight for the Meuse. But there's so little information to base this on in the beginning.

Regarding 1) above. Yes, this has happened to me, especially with regard to Huy which is a nightmare. I absolutely try and save as many of the starting CCRs as I can and always pair elite infantry with armour wherever possible to get the extra -1 that comes from this. It can make all the difference. Annoyingly to effectively defend Huy you usually have to give up Marche which I think is one of the most important spaces on the whole map.

With 3), I don't think I've ever lost Verviers and Bastogne. I will hold onto Verviers at all costs as that's where most of the reinforcements come from. Most experienced axis players never go for Verviers anyway as whilst it's doable, the cost always ends up being too high because of the clear terrain. I don't remember the last game I played as Axis where I went for Verviers.

Point 5). Yep, agree completely. One bad result that causes significant damage to the two big elite allied armour means it's pretty much game over.

Since I have become more familiar with the game, I don't think I have given up Verviers early in the game either. But I have lost it after the Germans reach the Muese, and I am faced with either pulling back the Verviers garrison to try to prevent an immediate loss from German exits points, or the slower loss from giving up Verviers. Also, I have lost Verviers when trying to defend it with a single unit, for the same reasons. And finally I have lost it when the Germans attack with 3 panzers against 2 infantry, though it usually takes them at least a couple of turns to reduce the defenders. That isn't too bad because they often have to give up attempts on Bastogne for the duration of the Verviers attack, assuming they didn't get the chance to pick it up for free on turn 2.

(update) I spoke too soon. Since this post I have participated in three games that saw a German win after the loss of Verviers. In all three it was garrisoned by three defending units. In one case the defenders included 2 full strength elite infantry and 5 factors of armor, pretty much the maximum possible Allied defense, but it still easily fell to a 19 point German attack, which also essentially rendered the defending units incapable of further combat operations for the remainder of the game.

Also, I would say your have created....

6) Getting one bad result that causes significant damage to the two big elite allied armour means it's pretty much game over. (This is a bit different from point 5 - in that loss it was because the Allied rolls were bad, not that the German's were good.

[jarg1]

7) Getting trapped behind the Meuse. You manage to keep your forces intact, hold Verviers and maybe even Bastogne and Spa, and prevented a Meuse crossing. But when the cavalry arrives on the 22nd, the Germans have lined the Meuse with panzers. Getting a counterattack going in time to win isn't likely. I'm embarrassed to admit I won a couple this way recently after failed Meuse crossings.

[jarg1]

Attempting a forward defense in the center. Sure this works great against the AI or newbies (unfortunately it takes a couple of turns to figure out your opponent's skill level), but a good German player will eat your lunch. The temptation to try this occurs most often when the German has an unlucky first turn - few impulses or bad combat results. However, in almost all instances where the Allies try to hold the line, they are actually just setting themselves up for an encirclement, after which the German has the luxury of easy kills, lots of VPs, and even unnecessarily continuing towards the Meuse since the remaining Allied forces are now too few and weak to put up much of a defense. I gave up on this strategy long ago, but occasionally win against others who still try it. They played well otherwise, so perhaps they tried this out of desperation since nothing else seems to work with any regularity.

[jarg1]

9) Using Dec. 17th reinforcements in Verviers exclusively for any purpose other than holding the Meuse. Note this does not mean that part of this force can't be used for other tasks, particularly garrisoning Verviers or Spa, but know that some of it is almost always needed in the rear. I've tried and seen other players try other moves, such as counterattacks into Spa or worse, to hold the center - see item 8, and worst of all to counterattack Eupen. There are exceptions to this rule. For example if the German has a slow start and is not immediately threatening a move on the Meuse, or has prepared a 3 panzer stack for an attack on Verviers, then by all means retask the 1st and 7th. But otherwise you are much more likely to see another Allied loss, including the increased possibility of a successful Meuse crossing by the Germans.

[Weids]

9) Using Dec. 17th reinforcements in Verviers exclusively for any purpose other than holding the Meuse. Note this does not mean that part of this force can't be used for other tasks, particularly garrisoning Verviers or Spa, but know that some of it is almost always needed in the rear. I've tried and seen other players try other moves, such as counterattacks into Spa or worse, to hold the center - see item 8, and worst of all to counterattack Eupen. There are exceptions to this rule. For example if the German has a slow start and is not immediately threatening a move on the Meuse, or has prepared a 3 panzer stack for an attack on Verviers, then by all means retask the 1st and 7th. But otherwise you are much more likely to see another Allied loss, including the increased possibility of a successful Meuse crossing by the Germans.

"There are exceptions to this rule. For example if the German has a slow start and is not immediately threatening a move on the Meuse, or has prepared a 3 panzer stack for an attack on Verviers, then by all means retask the 1st and 7th."

The second exception that the Allied should retreat from Veriers under threat of a strong Panzer stack is true; however, leaving a unit in Verviers so that the Axis cannot re-task his or her Panzer stack can be worth while under some circumstances.

"But otherwise you are much more likely to see another Allied loss, including the increased possibility of a successful Meuse crossing by the Germans"

I wouldn't say much more likely to see an Allied loss, but a little disadvantaged maybe.

Attempting a forward defense in the center. Sure this works great against the AI or newbies (unfortunately it takes a couple of turns to figure out your opponent's skill level), but a good German player will eat your lunch. The temptation to try this occurs most often when the German has an unlucky first turn - few impulses or bad combat results. However, in almost all instances where the Allies try to hold the line, they are actually just setting themselves up for an encirclement, after which the German has the luxury of easy kills, lots of VPs, and even unnecessarily continuing towards the Meuse since the remaining Allied forces are now too few and weak to put up much of a defense. I gave up on this strategy long ago, but occasionally win against others who still try it. They played well otherwise, so perhaps they tried this out of desperation since nothing else seems to work with any regularity.

"The temptation to try this occurs most often when the German has an unlucky first turn - few impulses or bad combat results."

I suggest that the Allied should make sure that the Axis could not bypass the defenders because of its misfortune.

"However, in almost all instances where the Allies try to hold the line, they are actually just setting themselves up for an encirclement"

This move is also a mean to slow down the Axis. It is tempted when the Axis is very fortunate. (Note that the important location which is Houffalize stops Axis reinforcements to the Bastogne area) The Allied should indict river crossings to secure its supply and retreat from positions when under threat. Keep some forces in Eupen so that you don't lose Verviers. You also need to reinforce Verviers more than a single infantry division to defend 1SS. Use with caution.

In conclusion, the latter ones which are quoted here are less obvious, unlike the rest.

[thedudeabidez]

I would view 8.) in a different way. Aggressive forward defense can often slow the Germans significantly, but the downside is that your excellent defensive play will be rewarded by the Germans never reaching the Meuse, hence no Brits, and you will surely lose as the German concentrates on taking either Verviers or Bastogne and digging in. I've come to the opinion that against a competent German player, you're almost better off daring him to advance to Huy and taking your chances around the Meuse. That's dangerous and there's a good chance you will lose big, but with no Brits against solid German defense, there is almost no hope of a win.