WH40K Evolution Dream & comparison to OOB Pacific

[arulcrist]

Hi,

This is maybe my first post but I am a long old fan of slitherine series (PzC, WH40K, OOB Pacific now).

I have played the three campaigns in WH40K (original, Salamanders & Blood Angels).

After some months of play, i have a few dreams about your games, especially WH40K Armageddon.

WH40K is an old incredible "super fun" universe (as is WH Battle) go on your relations with games workshop.

First, the fixes :

Things to improve ASAP :
1. Support units doesn't gain experience while doing support fire, fix it !
2. Remove the core unit strong cap, or make it like in OOB Pacific: one for each king of units (infantry, heavy infantry, vehicles, tanks, dreads, titans)
--> if you want us to play with tacticals squad which are good, remove this cap or we will stay with termies / dread)
--> This kind of things will permit us to develop a realistic imperial guard army : plenty of steel legions, with plenty of support squad, with tanks behind...
3. Stop with the crazy unbalanced maps full of Titans / Dreads, theses units are rare (in the two sides !!!!).
--> in Vulkan's Wrath, I NEEDED DREADS & LR & DEV MULTI-MELTA to kill plenty of Orcish Titans, bored of this...
--> Angels of Death Campaign was better this side.
4. Increase Defense, Balance Size of units like in real Warhammer 40K and fix your damage mechanics.

Things I dream (but you need strong evolutions to your engine)
1. Keep hex grids and units 2D but go for customization and squad "customizing" in the real numbers of GW :
For example : devastator squads goes from 5 to 10 marines, we should adapt the size and cost of unit, we can add weapons, sergent, customize weapons with cost..
2. Introduce Heroes : it is easy like in OOB and old Panzer general mechanics to add heroes to unit which have an effect on units or add a powerful weapon ?

3. Reduce damages, reduce numbers of units in maps to kill, go to a more skirmish route, oob pacific is good this size.
In WH40K Armageddon, i have to kill swarm and swarm of mobs, vehicles, tanks and gargants.... Hey Man, ONE Gargant / TITAN is a really MASSIVE THREAT

4. Kill individuals not numbers, give xp to individuals... :
imagine a tactical squad with 10 marines, with armor etc, experience should not be gained for the whole unit but for each individuals which become more and more solid (life points) and resistant...

5. Give skills / weapons & armors to units --> like in the STR.

In conclusion, you should create another game with full army management / customization with vehicles, armors, weapons, heroes, sergeants, experience & rookies,.... and then when army is managed go to the same game with yout army

6. Create a skirmish mode on randoms maps with this kind of things (in army manager, we create armies, and then fight them in skirmishes)

7. Then create a "grand campaign skirmish mode" like in steel panthers where you can make evolve and live your army to glory (or death )

------------------------------------------------
Things not to difficult to improve :

-Use OOB Pacific upgrades to put them in WH40K ;
-Develop a WH Battle universe
- Go on your DLC route with armies
- Fix Flying units not to occupy a slot in hex
- Create a SOFT CAP / HARD CAP / FLY CAP for damage... NO Gretchins cant kill termies... NO Nobz & Space Marines are not SOFT CAP, they are hard cap and so have a good chance to resist to bolter fire :
This is very important in warhammer universe :
NO Armor : one shot and you lose a hit point: gretchins, steel legions, standard ork (unless they have a lot of life)
SOFT Armor : they protect us a good way against light weapons : marines, nobz, kommandoz, vehicles: Lots of bolters fires are avoided, but an assault cannon will shred you into pieces...
HARD Armor : light weapons do NOTHING, and you have good protection agains other weapons, only HEAVY WEAPONS like Lascannons, multi-melta, plasma will cut you through : dreads, titans, land raider, termies, are in this cateogry.

Fix your Piercing Damage / Armor to get more in this way and the game will be a lot more funny on the rock / paper / scissors play.
I am bored :
- to see termies killed by gretchins & shootas
- not using tacticals because they are not solid enough to fight on par (even in trenches) in ranged fire with standard orks
- be forced to take lots of dreadnought to have a "TANK" to block the waves (and my good support squad which don't earn XP behind and kills zon's of mobs...)
- seeing my flying, scouts bikes, vehicles be destroyed on 3-4 sustained fire because they were frontline...

I would like to see more :
- support / team mechanics : one Devastator and to tactical in group play should support each other...
- split points you ean in the different kinds of units (so we have a lot of points to buy tacticals, steel legions,...) and less points to buy dreads, termies..
- make termies and dreads rare : BUT VERY EFFICIENT
- make Gargants & Titans super Rare : BUT AN ENORMOUS THREAT WHICH SHOULD BE CLEARED with good use of specialized units and not with armyes of DR / LR.

My 2 cents.

(i critic, but i love your job !)


Thanks for the job done !

[enpi]

Things to improve ASAP :
1. Support units doesn't gain experience while doing support fire, fix it !
2. Remove the core unit strong cap, or make it like in OOB Pacific: one for each king of units (infantry, heavy infantry, vehicles, tanks, dreads, titans)
--> if you want us to play with tacticals squad which are good, remove this cap or we will stay with termies / dread)
--> This kind of things will permit us to develop a realistic imperial guard army : plenty of steel legions, with plenty of support squad, with tanks behind...
3. Stop with the crazy unbalanced maps full of Titans / Dreads, theses units are rare (in the two sides !!!!).
--> in Vulkan's Wrath, I NEEDED DREADS & LR & DEV MULTI-MELTA to kill plenty of Orcish Titans, bored of this...
--> Angels of Death Campaign was better this side.
4. Increase Defense, Balance Size of units like in real Warhammer 40K and fix your damage mechanics.

ad1 - thats a bad idea. It would level up support units much too fast. They fire up to 10 times per round in some scenarios (eg. Bloodangel campaign). They are mighty enoughnow. Giving them more power is not good.

ad2 - thats a good idea. A simple rule with a cap on elite units, standard units and special units lilke in WH40k tabletop would be the way to go. Each unit should fall into one of these 3 subcathegories. (eg. your troop of 18 core units can consist of 10 standard units, 4 elites and 4 specials)

ad3 - vulcans wrath is sometimes are very unbalanced campaign, I agree.

ad4- not a good idea. I like the damage system as it is.

Things I dream (but you need strong evolutions to your engine)
1. Keep hex grids and units 2D but go for customization and squad "customizing" in the real numbers of GW :
For example : devastator squads goes from 5 to 10 marines, we should adapt the size and cost of unit, we can add weapons, sergent, customize weapons with cost..
2. Introduce Heroes : it is easy like in OOB and old Panzer general mechanics to add heroes to unit which have an effect on units or add a powerful weapon ?

3. Reduce damages, reduce numbers of units in maps to kill, go to a more skirmish route, oob pacific is good this size.
In WH40K Armageddon, i have to kill swarm and swarm of mobs, vehicles, tanks and gargants.... Hey Man, ONE Gargant / TITAN is a really MASSIVE THREAT

4. Kill individuals not numbers, give xp to individuals... :
imagine a tactical squad with 10 marines, with armor etc, experience should not be gained for the whole unit but for each individuals which become more and more solid (life points) and resistant...

5. Give skills / weapons & armors to units --> like in the STR.

6. Create a skirmish mode on randoms maps with this kind of things (in army manager, we create armies, and then fight them in skirmishes)

7. Then create a "grand campaign skirmish mode" like in steel panthers where you can make evolve and live your army to glory (or death )

ad1 - too much micromanagement for me. Wh40 should be epic with larger units and not focused on single men.

ad2 - there are already heroes in the game or what is the Comm. Dante unit?

ad3 - no please not this. thats a VERY bad idea. This would kill all the epicness and bloodyness of this great game. Strongly against!

ad4 and ad5 - bad idea. see ad1

ad6 - super idea. I like it and strongly support a real skirmish mode.

ad7 - why not.


Generally I would not recommend to introduce too many elements of OOB: Pacific to Wh40k. They are 2 totally different beasts. Playing both in my books I think even WH40k is the far better game. Its addictive and fun, while OOB is sometimes really tedious, unfair and inferior to even its predecessor Panzer Corps.

[jujax_slith]

Hi Enpi,

Thanks for your reply through vision.

If I make a synthesis of the good points we agree, the game should develop on these points :

1. Remove core cap unit and add Standard / Elite / Special core CAP
2. Introduce a skirmish mode for good replayability waiting before 2 DLC
3. Create a GrandCampaign Mode.

When I look some other posts in forum, I think the main problem of this game is the Core only CAP.

Have fun with WH40K Armageddon

[em]

I do support all three improvements listed above but I would really really like to add
4. Fix air units. They should actually fly, thereby be able to share a hex with ground units and not be so easily damaged by regular weapons.
5. Fix recon units. Segmented movement is a must to use them efficiently and keep them alive.

[jujax_slith]

Thanks Em.

I agree too to these improvements, I update this to :

1. Remove core cap unit and add Standard / Elite / Special core CAP
2. Introduce a skirmish mode for good replayability waiting before 2 DLC
3. Create a GrandCampaign Mode.
4. Fix air units. They should actually fly, thereby be able to share a hex with ground units and not be so easily damaged by regular weapons.
5. Fix recon units. Segmented movement is a must to use them efficiently and keep them alive.

[enpi]

I can absolutely second these 5 points. Thanks for making the list jujax.

[Werebear]

Totally agree