Alexander beats Darius, ..duh

[Hendricus]

Gaugamela proves that numbers count. With an army almost twice the size as that of his opponent Alexander makes history.
70.000 Macedonians against 40.000 Persians. The genius of Alexander to gather such an overwhelming force can be seen at Gaugamela.
Those odds are hard to beat. A real challenge for the Persian commander.
A what if scenario giving the Persian army those odds would be appreciated by me.
70.000 Persians against 40.000 Macedonians that is.

[rbodleyscott]

If you play as Macedonians on Tribune (Easy) difficulty level it is 68181 vs 42183.

On Emperor difficulty level it is more like 54000 to 42000, but in points 2000 Macedonian points vs 2700 Persian points.

This is because we left the vast horde of useless levy infantry (which did nothing in the battle) out of the scenario, and the Persian army is hence mostly cavalry. And matches modern estimates of the historical numbers in the Persian fighting line.

Despite the numbers stated in the contemporary historical sources, Darius's army wasn't some sort of "doom machine". It was in fact his last throw of the dice - a last-ditch attempt to scrape up an army capable of stopping Alexander. As such he concripted every peasant he could force to the muster, plus all the cavalry he could muster and very little competent infantry. In the end, the cavalry and the very few competent infantry formed the entire fighting line, and the rest just cowered at the back - taking no part in the fighting.

So playing SP as Macedonians on Emperor level is probably closest to the historical matchup.

Played the other way round, the figures are worse for the Persians - but it is a game and the challenge needs to match the difficulty level.

In the MP version the Macedonians have 2650 points worth of troops and the Persians have 2693 points. But the Macedonian army is tough to beat with the Persians even on equal points.

[Hendricus]

If you play as Macedonians on Tribune (Easy) difficulty level it is 68181 vs 42183.

On Emperor difficulty level it is more like 54000 to 42000, but in points 2000 Macedonian points vs 2700 Persian points.

This is because we left the vast horde of useless levy infantry (which did nothing in the battle) out of the scenario, and the Persian army is hence mostly cavalry. And matches modern estimates of the historical numbers in the Persian fighting line.

Despite the numbers stated in the contemporary historical sources, Darius's army wasn't some sort of "doom machine". It was in fact his last throw of the dice - a last-ditch attempt to scrape up an army capable of stopping Alexander. As such he concripted every peasant he could force to the muster, plus all the cavalry he could muster and very little competent infantry. In the end, the cavalry and the very few competent infantry formed the entire fighting line, and the rest just cowered at the back - taking no part in the fighting.

So playing SP as Macedonians on Emperor level is probably closest to the historical matchup.

Played the other way round, the figures are worse for the Persians - but it is a game and the challenge needs to match the difficulty level.

In the MP version the Macedonians have 2650 points worth of troops and the Persians have 2693 points. But the Macedonian army is tough to beat with the Persians even on equal points.

I'm with you about the levy infantry, but having lots of them in the back gives a more secure feeling, testing if that is justified would make the battle even more interesting.

[rbodleyscott]

I'm with you about the levy infantry, but having lots of them in the back gives a more secure feeling, testing if that is justified would make the battle even more interesting.

It is easy enough to clone the module and then add them in the editor.

[Hendricus]

I'm with you about the levy infantry, but having lots of them in the back gives a more secure feeling, testing if that is justified would make the battle even more interesting.

It is easy enough to clone the module and then add them in the editor.

Thanks, you make it sound so easy.

[Aryaman]

In fact, the numbers of the Persian armies are hugely inflated, as we have only the Greek point of view. Delbruck estimated the Persian army of Xerxes in 30.000

[BillLottJr]

In fact, the numbers of the Persian armies are hugely inflated, as we have only the Greek point of view. Delbruck estimated the Persian army of Xerxes in 30.000

I think a good rule of thumb when dealing with ancient sources in Greek vs Non-Greek battles, is to divide the Non-Greek total by 10.

I'm learning to use the editor by making a Gaugamela scenario. In the first test, the Persian AI sent in their Chariots & elephants. The chariots where slaughtered by my light infantry & cavalry. The elephants however, attacked the Agema Companion cavalry & killed Alexander. Well played Jumbo, well played.

[GiveWarAchance]

I'm playing this battle now. Good fight with new units.
The battle is like a Rocky versus Apollo fight where you get chewed up very badly for awhile by the Persian arrow storm, but then the Macedonian pikes and companion cavalry gradually overcome them in melee fights and finally smash them brutally.
I haven't finished the battle yet so I'm not sure of victory yet and the deadly elephants are crushing into my troops, but I'm feeling optimistic about it overall. I haven't fought Darius's deadly apple pickers yet.
This battle should be good for MP cause the two sides are so different from each other.

[GiveWarAchance]

I won the battle. It was fun My foot companions got trashed quite badly by pursuing Iranian cavalry too far into their midst and got attacked on all sides, but overall I did good.
Darius's apple pickers survived until the retreat was sounded. He did 93 damage to one of my hoplite units on the last turn as a parting gift.
I wouldn't want to be one of those cavalry when they get skewered on one of those super long spear things.