My take on exporting battles

[MarkShot]

In a 2 step video, Chris Webber, showed that the difference between FOGE vs FOG2 resolution is not that substantial. Note: an important factor is that Chris is an expert FOG2 player.

In FOGE we have units that suffer terrain penalties (like legions in woods). In FOGE, the terrain is always homogeneous for the battle. But in FOG2, the terrain is never homogeneous and you often find advantageous terrain for your troops despite the province description.

So, I think FOGE resolve if the terrain is not against you. I think FOG2 resolve if the terrain is against you.

Comments?

[Swuul]

The units exporting to FoG2 are used with the *current* stats of the unit. So your veteran legionares in FOGE might be exported as inexperienced or mediocore legionares to FoG2 if the unit happpens to be in bad terrain in FOGE.

As such, I would actually say the reverse is true. If terrain is good, export to FoG2. If terrain is bad, don't export, as your heavy infantries will still have their 3 hitpoints, experience level and leader-bonus in FOGE (getting a -2 to Attack/Defense is miniscule compared to the bonii you get from Experience affecting minimum die roll and/or the number of re-rolls you get from the leader), instead of fighting with worse quality troops in FoG2.

[MarkShot]

Thanks.

[Solaristics]

In a 2 step video, Chris Webber, showed that the difference between FOGE vs FOG2 resolution is not that substantial. Note: an important factor is that Chris is an expert FOG2 player.

In FOGE we have units that suffer terrain penalties (like legions in woods). In FOGE, the terrain is always homogeneous for the battle. But in FOG2, the terrain is never homogeneous and you often find advantageous terrain for your troops despite the province description.

So, I think FOGE resolve if the terrain is not against you. I think FOG2 resolve if the terrain is against you.

Comments?

I had a situation where I had a significantly numerically superior force but very poor leadership (0 v 2!) against a force of otherwise similar quality. I decided that the dice would murder me so that's the only time I went to FOG2. Lots of careful setup and management of troops meant that I was victorious (second last turn I think) although run through FOGE it was a massacre. I would definitely run it through FOG2 if I had poor leadership relative to the enemy again as you can defend on higher ground, keep poor quality units (due to leadership differences translated) in the rear for when the enemy is weakened and use missile troops and cavalry carefully.

Overall, unlike the Total War series, FOGE resolutions seem fair and reasonable. I remember in Total War having to go to the tactical battle in many situations where I couldn't really be bothered because of the patchiness of the strategic resolution of battles.

[Gray Fox]

I use the FOGE battle mechanic. I've seen some sub-par stack composition in posts and have attributed this to those using FOG 2. Is this the case? Does a stack composed for FOG 2 vary completely from one that works well for FOGE?

[sillygoy]

It is actually devastatingly substantial if you pull off very decisive victories in FoGII, like so:





Mr. Webber, it seems to me, just needs to git gud.

[Morbio]

I agree that it seems that you can achieve more with exporting to FOG2 than fighting in FOG:E.

Personally I avoid exporting at all times because it seems gamey to me to export just to gain an additional advantage.

[Gray Fox]

I thought as much. The videos are from 8 months ago. The game has changed since then with the addition of flank tiles for cavalry. Also, Webber's stack in his videos is weak. My average force mid game is 40 units with a power over 600 and uses a better mix. Has anyone ever lost a FOG 2 battle?

[sillygoy]

Only when I am outnumbered, although thanks to the mobility of an all-cavalry army I can stave off complete defeat by running down the turn timer and leaving most of my army intact. I don't think it's gamey at all to be able to take full tactical control of battles in FoG2 to heighten one's successes and soften one's defeats - it's the privilege one gets from owning both games. Military success through micromanagement in FoG2 was the only thing keeping my nation of Sarmatia afloat during its simultaneous wars against the Macedonians and Antigonids.

[MarkShot]

I am playing FOG2 export at the LEGATE level.

I thought the two developers have done a fairly nice job of balancing.

I fought one medium size battle:

FOGE: Draw, Victory

FOG2: Victory (60%+)

The FOGE victory left me with twice the combat power of the FOG2 victory, but boy way it a fun fight. After doing it seriously one time, I think it comes down to whether do you have an hour or two ... and is it fun. Because I think both are superb games.

[Gray Fox]

Having fun is a big part of owning the game. Thanks for the responses.

[Pocus]

I am playing FOG2 export at the LEGATE level.

I thought the two developers have done a fairly nice job of balancing.

I fought one medium size battle:

FOGE: Draw, Victory

FOG2: Victory (60%+)

The FOGE victory left me with twice the combat power of the FOG2 victory, but boy way it a fun fight. After doing it seriously one time, I think it comes down to whether do you have an hour or two ... and is it fun. Because I think both are superb games.

[MarkShot]

I was at war with Senones and went out to turn 22 as I could not make progress against Frontage=5 and Terrain=Marsh.

I went back to the first invasion of Aemelia (turn 7) and exported (100%; playing on Legate).

No, frontage issues. So, the vastly larger Roman army was able to join the fray. Despite the FOG2 marsh tiles, it was not hard to form a battle line of legion units on open terrain. Senones was annihilated with a 10:1 kill ratio. Of course, this required 3 hours versus 5 seconds, but it totally changed the course of history.

I think exporting largely negates frontage and terrain issues. Also, this is because unlike TW, the attacker doesn't automatically lose due to failure to take the field. But in FOG2, the AI will always come to you. Thus, the use of skirmishers to destroy attack coordination with a good static defense is very effective.

For this situation, I should have had an Alae heavy army in FOGE, but the Legion heavy army worked fine when ported to FOG2. And again, the issue of frontage completely disappears.

[sillygoy]

I think exporting largely negates frontage and terrain issues.

This has been 50/50 in my experience. Sometimes the game gives me rough hills with narrow passages of open terrain in between them, and other times the mountains let me deploy 5,000 horsemen abreast.

[Morbio]

I was at war with Senones and went out to turn 22 as I could not make progress against Frontage=5 and Terrain=Marsh.

I went back to the first invasion of Aemelia (turn 7) and exported (100%; playing on Legate).

No, frontage issues. So, the vastly larger Roman army was able to join the fray. Despite the FOG2 marsh tiles, it was not hard to form a battle line of legion units on open terrain. Senones was annihilated with a 10:1 kill ratio. Of course, this required 3 hours versus 5 seconds, but it totally changed the course of history.

I think exporting largely negates frontage and terrain issues. Also, this is because unlike TW, the attacker doesn't automatically lose due to failure to take the field. But in FOG2, the AI will always come to you. Thus, the use of skirmishers to destroy attack coordination with a good static defense is very effective.

For this situation, I should have had an Alae heavy army in FOGE, but the Legion heavy army worked fine when ported to FOG2. And again, the issue of frontage completely disappears.

This is why I made the statement that I avoid 'exporting to achieve a result' because I think it is gamey to do so. For my play it is binary: always export or always let FOG:E determine the result.

[Gomoto]

I export games because it is a lot of fun. I even play some onesided battles, especially if I have the superior force

I really like the FOGE FOG2 combination. One of the few games I not play for the win but because I enjoy my time a lot with the pair.

[OldSarge]

I do a mix of both. If I have time for a large set piece battle I'll go for FOGII, otherwise for smaller battles I'll resolve with FOGE. Both are fine, though I do like the feeling of taking charge of my troops in FOG2.

BTW, someone asked a few posts above, yes I have lost battles in FOG2. In one case it would've been a battle I would've won in FOGE. IIRC, when my army was exported their quality was disheartened, the enemies forces were superior so they went through my forces like the proverbial hot knife through butter -- and it was fun!

[rbodleyscott]

For this situation, I should have had an Alae heavy army in FOGE, but the Legion heavy army worked fine when ported to FOG2. And again, the issue of frontage completely disappears.

This is why I made the statement that I avoid 'exporting to achieve a result' because I think it is gamey to do so. For my play it is binary: always export or always let FOG:E determine the result.

An additional possibility is to use the optional Advanced Settings in FOG2 to increase the difficulty of the exported battles.

(By default FOG2 difficulty settings do not affect exported Empires battles, but there is now the option to have them do so if you wish).

[Bullseye500]

Gamey is in the eye of the beholder, I always play both games with only one goal in mind...FUN.

I export all of the important battles to FOG II and auto resolve most of the skirmishes. I sometimes pay the price loosing battles in FOG II when I become inpatient and have been out maneuvered. Getting in a hurry will cost troops but it is all part of the fun.

I have not played much recently because I am awaiting the new DLC but I may go ahead and take back up the game I set aside a few weeks ago. I have finished Mass Effect II and III and am currently about 25% of the way thru ME Andromeda in the mean time but Empires is calling to me.

(This virus thing is really boring and I want to get back to work!)

I hope everyone reading this has a pleasant day as I am up at 3:00 am reading the news and game forums awaiting the sunrise to continue my Springtime yard maintenance and home repairs, things are looking very good out there

[poesel71]

When the game came out I played a lot of battles in FOG2. But then played mostly MP.

I really like that you can play both games together. But I have to say that I got bored after a while. Mainly because in the exported battles the AI was always very passive. You can maneuver around as you like as long as you stay far away enough. Then you pull the skirmishers and then the rest will follow straight ahead.
The winning tactic is to always put everything on one wing, draw the enemy, battle a third or half of them and be finished before the rest swings around. Properly positioned you can win very unfavourable battles.

Making a better AI is difficult but what I would like to see is more variance in the attacks. Cautious to crazy, centered or unbalanced - that kind of stuff. That would make it much more interesting.