Few suggestions for better gameplay and more realistic game

vveedd · Post by **vveedd** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:29 pm

1.)When I have attacked France, British troops has been defending Paris. To my opinion, this is a little unrealistic. You should add some French-British restrictions in early years of war like British units cannot enter Paris, limited number of British land and air troops in French territory etc. This is for more realistic game.

2.)If I understood correctly even on 7:1 odds enemy units has chance to survive. You should add 8:1 column where result will be certain overrun without losses. This is for better gameplay. I am aware that it is not quite realistic.

3.)Air units shouldn’t land in every hex especially not in fortress, forest or swamp hexes. The best solution will be that you have airbases hexes and counters. Less better solution, but still better then current solution, will be that air units can land on city and clear terrain hexes only. This is for better gameplay and more realistic game.

And one question:
Must I conquer all hexes with victory points for French surrender?

gwgardner · Post by **gwgardner** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:55 pm

Paris and ten cities.

steambap · Post by **steambap** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:02 pm

To answer your question, you need Paris and 9 other citys as per doomtrader.

vveedd · Post by **vveedd** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:50 am

steambap wrote:To answer your question, you need Paris and 9 other citys as per doomtrader.

9 other cities with VP or any cities?

doomtrader · Post by **doomtrader** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:26 am

I' just checking the events and it looks like there is an error in the game logic.
As soon as I will get full data, I will post further information.

Bern · Post by **Bern** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:26 am

steambap wrote:To answer your question, you need Paris and 9 other citys as per doomtrader.

Now that's a bit confusing. According to the manual I have, a country surrenders when it loses all victory points it owns ... within its own borders. Maybe this could be clarified.

Bern

doomtrader · Post by **doomtrader** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:29 am

Bern wrote:
steambap wrote:To answer your question, you need Paris and 9 other citys as per doomtrader.
Now that's a bit confusing. According to the manual I have, a country surrenders when it loses all victory points it owns ... within its own borders. Maybe this could be clarified.

Bern

Of course every country will be beaten every time all VP belong to it are lost. This is a general rule.
However some of the events might introduce other circumstances which allow to conquer that country earlier.

borsook79 · Post by **borsook79** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:41 pm

Coming back to OP's suggestions - I like 3, but I can't agree with 1 and 2 - any restrictions on AI making it more realistic instead of more challenging are a bad thing to me, a player would use UK's troops like that. Also I do not think that any situation when you have absolute knowledge of the combat's outcome before it commences is good for the game.

vveedd · Post by **vveedd** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:06 pm

Borsook wrote:Coming back to OP's suggestions - I like 3, but I can't agree with 1 and 2 - any restrictions on AI making it more realistic instead of more challenging are a bad thing to me, a player would use UK's troops like that. Also I do not think that any situation when you have absolute knowledge of the combat's outcome before it commences is good for the game.

Well, 8:1 column gives more to gameplay because players can do better planning but ok - it is the weakest suggestion in those 3 above. Point 1 is for game to be more historically correct, it looks very unrealistic that British troops will defend Paris in year 1940 but ok – I can accept this IF someone answers me how Germany can conquer France before 1941 if I must take Paris plus 9 cities with VP? Must I remind you that 2 French cities with VP are in North Africa? Must I remind you that historically France fell on 22 June 1940?

BUT now I am really mad guys; I am playing grand campaign as Germany and on 1-June-1940 USSR declare war on me without any reason. Didn’t do anything on east except conquered Poland. I even accepted Hitler-Stalin pact. You don’t have classical WWII grand strategy restriction that USSR can NOT declare war on Germany until 1941 or something similar? I like very much “What if” situations but this is ridiculous.

borsook79 · Post by **borsook79** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:42 pm

vveedd wrote:
Borsook wrote:Coming back to OP's suggestions - I like 3, but I can't agree with 1 and 2 - any restrictions on AI making it more realistic instead of more challenging are a bad thing to me, a player would use UK's troops like that. Also I do not think that any situation when you have absolute knowledge of the combat's outcome before it commences is good for the game.
Well, 8:1 column gives more to gameplay because players can do better planning but ok - it is the weakest suggestion in those 3 above. Point 1 is for game to be more historically correct, it looks very unrealistic that British troops will defend Paris in year 1940 but ok – I can accept this IF someone answers me how Germany can conquer France before 1941 if I must take Paris plus 9 cities with VP? Must I remind you that 2 French cities with VP are in North Africa? Must I remind you that historically France fell on 22 June 1940?

I do understand where you're coming from with this, but if we impose such a restriction on AI we will be seeing situations like Paris is empty and British troops are just standing by.

doomtrader · Post by **doomtrader** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:46 pm

You have to take 9 French cities (with or without VP) and Paris to have a chance to trigger French surrender.
Otherwise you can just conquer all French VP cities.

Bern · Post by **Bern** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:08 am

"BUT now I am really mad guys; I am playing grand campaign as Germany and on 1-June-1940 USSR declare war on me without any reason. Didn’t do anything on east except conquered Poland. I even accepted Hitler-Stalin pact. You don’t have classical WWII grand strategy restriction that USSR can NOT declare war on Germany until 1941 or something similar? I like very much “What if” situations but this is ridiculous. "

Now that's what I would call an excellent move by the AI, especially if human Axis is having problems finishing off France. I wouldn't be confident that the AI is in a strong position to do this, but presumably the AI has made an assessment and believes this is the way to go. I hope this is played through - I'd be interested in the outcome.

I have to say that so far, I haven't been particularly impressed by the AI - but this move changes that a bit.

Bern

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:33 am

Who did you DOW and Who did you influence?

Note: There may be a 1% chance for the USSR to do this but I would have to check.

vveedd · Post by **vveedd** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:41 am

Borsook wrote: I do understand where you're coming from with this, but if we impose such a restriction on AI we will be seeing situations like Paris is empty and British troops are just standing by.

I am not a programmer (I am just Microsoft Enterprise administrator

) so I will believe you but when you have mentioned this, I have noticed that initial set up of units in neutral countries after I declared war was very bizarre. In some cases capitol city was empty (Norway), in some cases in capitol city was air unit (Netherlands). Maybe you should take another look at this.

Bern wrote:
Now that's what I would call an excellent move by the AI, especially if human Axis is having problems finishing off France. I wouldn't be confident that the AI is in a strong position to do this, but presumably the AI has made an assessment and believes this is the way to go. I hope this is played through - I'd be interested in the outcome.

I have to say that so far, I haven't been particularly impressed by the AI - but this move changes that a bit.

Bern

It would have been a good move in June, 1 1941 (maybe) but in 1940? If game is balanced, USSR can’t possibly be prepared for war. And if they are not prepared then it is a very dumb move. Also, I have no difficulty to take France, as I mentioned before it is June, 1 1940 and I took ¾ of France including all cities with VP’s in north and central part of France plus Vichy in south and Italian troops are encircled Marseille. So I have done it much better then Axis in WWII

but for some unknown reason can’t get France to surrender.

Razz1 wrote:Who did you DOW and Who did you influence?

Note: There may be a 1% chance for the USSR to do this but I would have to check.

On the east Italy has influenced Bulgaria but percentage is still below 40%. Germany hard influenced Sweden. It is at 85% to join Axis. Maybe this is reason why USSR declared war on Germany? Or maybe you have garrison rule for Poland? If yes, then you guys should make another manual with more details and information’s. Also, I haven’t seen any notification that USSR declared war on Germany. It should have been a huge notification with big red font on center of the screen

.

And one quick question: haven’t found in manual how many AP costs if you are moving thru enemy Zone of Control?

doomtrader · Post by **doomtrader** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:45 am

And one quick question: haven’t found in manual how many AP costs if you are moving thru enemy Zone of Control?

Usually it's one additional AP

vveedd · Post by **vveedd** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:40 am

Continuing with the game:

I have got Vichy event finally. On what circumstances this event is available?

I have managed to take Norway also with amphibious assault on Narvik (I took Oslo much before). There was no Norway or British unit in it even I have got event that it is under Allied control?

Now I’ve relocated all units to fight against USSR. So far, the strongest unit I have met is infantry corps with strength 3. I hope that I will meet much stronger units deeper in USSR because my suspicion that this was a very bad move for AI will be true. On the other hand, if I meet too many strong units it could be indicator that game is not balanced. We will see.

waichou · Post by **waichou** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:19 pm

No, unfortunatly you are right... Russia has praticly no army but declared war (every time Romania become Axis)... Very bad thing, I played 2 games with the same result (and this is not the only problem with diplomacy !) . As the developpers do not seems to change this bug (for the moment - see posts in Matrixgames forum), I think I have to forget the Grand Scenario and start in 1941 or 1942, maybe it will be more realistic !

vveedd · Post by **vveedd** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:51 pm

waichou wrote:No, unfortunatly you are right... Russia has praticly no army but declared war (every time Romania become Axis)... Very bad thing, I played 2 games with the same result (and this is not the only problem with diplomacy !) . As the developpers do not seems to change this bug (for the moment - see posts in Matrixgames forum), I think I have to forget the Grand Scenario and start in 1941 or 1942, maybe it will be more realistic !

Thanks for information. I will do the same or we can try PBEM against each other? I can play one or two turns per day in late afternoon hours (CET). Are you interested?

doomtrader · Post by **doomtrader** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:55 pm

Problem fixed for next release, Romania will not pull Germany into the war for Bessarabia.
Decision will be left to the German side.

Rasputitsa · Post by **Rasputitsa** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:16 pm

doomtrader wrote:Problem fixed for next release, Romania will not pull Germany into the war for Bessarabia.
Decision will be left to the German side.

How will it be implemented, will there be no chance of early Soviet entry, or could we have a tick box option to have the possibility of an early entry at low odds, just to make sure you don't leave the Eastern border completely undefended (if you want to use the option).