units never used

[captainjack]

I agree that one kradschutzen seems to use more fuel than the rest of the army put together, especially in Vyazma's mud. Maybe they left the brakes on. The problem with these is that they become available too late to be any use - if they had an upgrade to 43 Kradschutzen or were recon units it might be a bit more tempting.

Personally I treat myself to one unit at the start of 39 using cheat codes, as they were around then in reasonable numbers - a sort of personal compensation for not using the Sig 33 [see elsewhere for arguments on this...]. The 5SA and air defence makes the thirsty krad quite good up to early 42. Even in 42, with a +1 spotting hero it's still useful even when refuelling. But more than 1 is way too powerful in the early years and makes life way too easy, even if half are queuing for petrol.

Oh, yes and Panzer 2! Rubbish, until you an upgrade them to a Flammpanzer and even then is only useful to direct aircraft away from your more valuable units. Now, if Panzer 2C was a recon unit and could be upgraded to the 2F later, I would think about it. I think it's even more annoying because for some odd reason I rather like the Panzer 2 as a tank. I remember reading about someone who always added two core slots using cheat codes so he could play the conscripts in every West scenario. Maybe I should learn from that and play a Panzer 2 in every game.

[Egge]

Supply is never an issue for the enemy, as I rarely see him anywhere near 0.
- BNC

A veteran strat bomber is able to instantly reduce ammo to 0. They are also very good against AA units if you able ro suppress them at least a little before attacking with bombers.

[MartyWard]

I agree that one kradschutzen seems to use more fuel than the rest of the army put together, especially in Vyazma's mud. Maybe they left the brakes on. The problem with these is that they become available too late to be any use - if they had an upgrade to 43 Kradschutzen or were recon units it might be a bit more tempting.

Why do motorcycle units unit a lot of fuel in the first place? I would think they would be the most fuel efficient units in the game!

[MartyWard]

Supply is never an issue for the enemy, as I rarely see him anywhere near 0.
- BNC

A veteran strat bomber is able to instantly reduce ammo to 0. They are also very good against AA units if you able ro suppress them at least a little before attacking with bombers.

Yep. Use one to suppress the AA protecting the artillery, use one to suppress the supporting artillery and then take out the defenders. Follow up and take out the suppressed, ammo-less artillery and AA, all with virtually no losses.

[antoniocapo]

I agree that one kradschutzen seems to use more fuel than the rest of the army put together, especially in Vyazma's mud. Maybe they left the brakes on. The problem with these is that they become available too late to be any use - if they had an upgrade to 43 Kradschutzen or were recon units it might be a bit more tempting.

Why do motorcycle units unit a lot of fuel in the first place? I would think they would be the most fuel efficient units in the game!

Because Goering rides the sidecar.

[MartyWard]

Why do motorcycle units unit a lot of fuel in the first place? I would think they would be the most fuel efficient units in the game!

Because Goering rides the sidecar.[/quote]

So if effect they are unicycles?

[FatRefrigerator]

I find that I never use Strategic Bombers or non-Self Propelled AA. Stationary AA is just a very niche thing for defensive missions and as there are so few of those I find them almost unusable. Strat Bombers do little damage, which is expected, but they miss completely quite often and when they do happen to hit the effect of -1 suppression and -1 supplies is virtually negligible.

[ThorHa]

I find that I never use Strategic Bombers or non-Self Propelled AA. Stationary AA is just a very niche thing for defensive missions and as there are so few of those I find them almost unusable. Strat Bombers do little damage, which is expected, but they miss completely quite often and when they do happen to hit the effect of -1 suppression and -1 supplies is virtually negligible.

Both simply not true, you don´t know how to handle both units, that´s all. In France 1940 the German 88 switched to AT is the only reliable one shot tank killer for the Char B1, in all scenarios highly experienced and overstrength strat bombers do a much better suppression work than artillery, opening the path for an "easy" surrender of the attacked shiny T34/43 with 3 stars.

Regards,
Thorsten

[MartyWard]

I find that I never use Strategic Bombers or non-Self Propelled AA. Stationary AA is just a very niche thing for defensive missions and as there are so few of those I find them almost unusable. Strat Bombers do little damage, which is expected, but they miss completely quite often and when they do happen to hit the effect of -1 suppression and -1 supplies is virtually negligible.

Both simply not true, you don´t know how to handle both units, that´s all. In France 1940 the German 88 switched to AT is the only reliable one shot tank killer for the Char B1, in all scenarios highly experienced and overstrength strat bombers do a much better suppression work than artillery, opening the path for an "easy" surrender of the attacked shiny T34/43 with 3 stars.

Regards,
Thorsten

Plus Strats range is far greater than artillery. Sometimes you just can't get the artillery where you want it when you need it. An experienced Strat is a really nice unit to have, particularly the upgraded Heinkel.

[antoniocapo]

Those Strat Bombers get crazy happy triggers sometimes too. I use them to fully supress a heavy tank unit and, boom! they hit for like 4 kills. Thats a waste of precious prestige after i surrender the unit. They hit hard if you build their experience, get them heroes and make them all He-177, love them.

[MartyWard]

It took me a while to understand their benefits but once I did I try to always deploy at least one.

[Aloo]

Start bombers need experience to work well. Once they get around 3 stars they become very powerful units that suppress and steal supplies. This is very useful for dealing with late game heavy tanks. They are a must in all scenarios where the enemy is using boats. A big plus for them is that they can handle a fighter attack without support if you forget about them.
If you are not convinced about the benefits of using one you just have to force yourself and use one for a while and see what he grows up to be (or just use a cheat and add xp). On a side note AFAIR the supply taking part of their skill depends on their str (overstrength is what makes them shine) and exp not on the type of plane so use any one you want.

[MartyWard]

Start bombers need experience to work well. Once they get around 3 stars they become very powerful units that suppress and steal supplies. This is very useful for dealing with late game heavy tanks. They are a must in all scenarios where the enemy is using boats. A big plus for them is that they can handle a fighter attack without support if you forget about them.
If you are not convinced about the benefits of using one you just have to force yourself and use one for a while and see what he grows up to be (or just use a cheat and add xp). On a side note AFAIR the supply taking part of their skill depends on their str (overstrength is what makes them shine) and exp not on the type of plane so use any one you want.

I agree they work best once you get 2-3 stars as the un-upgraded models don't have great stats but the upgraded ones have very good ones, as good or better than any artillery. If you get at least one for Norway you can get them experience as there are a fair amount of missions with enemy ships in '40.

[iceFlame]

Start bombers need experience to work well. Once they get around 3 stars they become very powerful units that suppress and steal supplies.

Good to hear 'cause early on they seem next to useless... My early game experience with them left such a bad taste in my mouth that I tend to avoid them as much as possible. But now that I've read this thread, perhaps I'll build one up and see for myself.

[captainjack]

Strat bombers are good.

Add 2 +3 attack heroes to a Ju188 and hey presto - minced ship! With the +6 attack the same plane was taking 2 or three points off churchills and sometimes 4 or 5 off soft targets in the open (not that there was much in Overlord) as well as stripping 80% or more ammo and fuel every time he attacked. How I wish I had another (ideally with 3 +3 attack heroes) for 43 and 44East.

Also, don't neglect the benefits of neutralising a town to stop the AI spamming units in towns you bypass as you rush for your goals. Even a lowly Do17 with 2 or 3* can neutralise towns quite well if overstrength, though you'd be better off with a HE111 as Do17's have even less range than a Kradschutzen with Goering in the sidecar and Jumbo the circus elephant on the back.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Whats better than Strategic Bombers though? Gas Shells!

See my WWI mod to find out about how gas shells will KILL YOU ALL!!! (as well as the enemy)

- BNC

[Aloo]

Ok found the information on Start Bomber efficiency (how much supplies and prestige, if its a victory location, is lost for the enemy) :

... prestige removed is equal to strategic bomber's efficiency divided by 2, and that, in turn, depends on bomber's strength and experience. The formula looks like this:

StrategicBomberEfficiency = (20 + 10*UnitStars) * UnitStrength / UnitMaxStrength

In bad visibility (weather is anything but clear) efficiency is halved.

So its all about exp and over strength. It doesn't matter at all if its a Do17 or a He 177.

So a green strat is 20% effectives but a 5* 15 str one is 105% efficiency meaning it gets the enemy down to 1 or 0 ammo in one shot if the weather is good.

[iceFlame]

Ok found the information on Start Bomber efficiency (how much supplies and prestige, if its a victory location, is lost for the enemy) :

... prestige removed is equal to strategic bomber's efficiency divided by 2, and that, in turn, depends on bomber's strength and experience. The formula looks like this:

StrategicBomberEfficiency = (20 + 10*UnitStars) * UnitStrength / UnitMaxStrength

In bad visibility (weather is anything but clear) efficiency is halved.

So its all about exp and over strength. It doesn't matter at all if its a Do17 or a He 177.

So a green strat is 20% effectives but a 5* 15 str one is 105% efficiency meaning it gets the enemy down to 1 or 0 ammo in one shot if the weather is good.

Interesting... That would actually make quite a difference. Reduce the enemy to low ammo and you've pretty much taken the 'teeth' out of the siege. Thanks for the post!

Edit: What about non-victory hexes? Is it just supplies that are effected there?

[Horst]

Yes, size doesn’t matter with the strategic bombers.
If you manage to get around 100% efficiency, then the target's Fuel is reduced to Movement speed, so the targeted unit can still make one full move on Road hexes, and Ammo is reduced to 1.
20% efficiency: on victory hex enemy looses 10/5 prestige, non-victory 20/10% neutralization vs. unoccupied/occupied hexes
105% efficiency: on victory hex enemy looses 52/26 prestige, non-victory 95/52% neutralization vs unoccupied/occupied hexes
Note that you can still bomb flagged hexes if allied units, eg. AA units that can't capture, are on the hexes which still count as unoccupied.
Loosing 52 prestige is a lot what can hardly be made up by a prestige/turn amount. Neutralizing is usually pointless against ground units, but can be devastating with the right timing against airfields with enemy planes nearby that need fuel. Airfields occupied by AA units can't be recaptured!

Bombing flags give 15 exp at beginning, so it’s not that shabby if no other targets are present. If you like to maximize exp gain, then always bomb the enemy units with the highest air defense of hard type. Even only suppression gives plenty exp.

[Aloo]

Yes, size doesn’t matter with the strategic bombers.

Actually according to the formula, it does.. unless you mean the size of the enemy? StrategicBomberEfficiency = (20 + 10*UnitStars) * UnitStrength / UnitMaxStrength

Please also keep in mind that start bombers earn xp in a way similar to art - much faster to normal units.