Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog Discussion

[ScottP]

This thread will cover all the information announced for Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog today on Day 2 for the Home of Wargamers Press Event.

Number of squads to control in Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog has been upped to a total of 21 squads, with sizes up to ten men!

With Slitherine acquiring the Close Combat license, this will be the last Close Combat on the original engine, with a new Close Combat coming out in the near future utilizing a new engine.

The graphical detail in Panthers in the Fog has been updated to 32-bit, with an improved UI as well, along with Slitherine's integrated multiplayer lobbies.

[ScottP]

Iain McNeil announced that the new Close Combat will be using the Unity engine, moving the series into 3D, while still retaining the essence of the game, while improving gameplay such as the LOS detail. Projected release is 2013, with a release on both the Mac and PC. In the not-too-distant future the series will move to the iPad tablet.

[ScottP]

Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog will come Q4 2012!

[MrsWargamer]

I have long known that Close Combat is one of the truly great wargames for electronic mediums.

But it has also long been known it has a rather quirky AI and really only shines human to human. You can pretty much say the same about Steel Panthers. Try as we might to consider Steel Panthers 'great' the AI is as dumb as a stump.

What I really look forward to with the future of Close Combat, is really the integration of the multi player experience of the Slitherine process of matching up opponents.

If asked, what is the best thing to happen to wargaming on the computer this century, I'm inclined to say the server hosting of opponents through Slitherine.

I recall playing Strategic Command quite frequently, till it became known even a retarded monkey could figure out how to cheat. Then the game promptly died in popularity as the multiplayer scene rolled over and collapsed under the weight of lack of trust. If you won you had cheated, and if you lost they had cheated.

On the other hand, every time I have played Battle Academy, I have been fully confident my opponent earned every win. Might have won from being cheesy, but it was an honest cheesy win

I look forward to Close Combat being a real time option that will really shine here at Slitherine even if I find my own time too limited to join in.

[Kerensky]

Panthers in the Fog...

I dunno why but that really reminds me of Tigers in the Mist.

[Scutarii]

Well, first thing i see in my mind was "Panthers in the vaporware" hehehe.

I am interested in what is going to be this game, another squad assault fail??? or a true game??? true thing is that now in 3D are really good games dont know if this game can fight with them...

CC 3D... first impression is bad, for me CC is allways the 2D game where you dont need care about camera controls

[ScottP]

Well, first thing i see in my mind was "Panthers in the vaporware" hehehe.

I am interested in what is going to be this game, another squad assault fail??? or a true game??? true thing is that now in 3D are really good games dont know if this game can fight with them...

CC 3D... first impression is bad, for me CC is allways the 2D game where you dont need care about camera controls

CC 3D will still be able to be played in the classic CC view of the top-down perspective. The big benefit of bringing it to the 3D realm is to finally get a better perspective on line of sight and line of fire to enemy units. I've had some frustrating moments in the classic CC series where it appears my squad in a house has a clear line of sight to an enemy unit, but it turns out the hill between the squad and the enemy was high enough to block it. With the 2D art, it can be difficult to see elevation issues, unless they added elevation rings like the ones you see in maps (which I have a secret admiration for to read and interpret), but we think bringing the CC series to 3D will be just fine.

I don't believe that if it couldn't be done right, it wouldn't be done at all. Close Combat is a well-known, well-loved tactical combat strategy game by a lot of people. At this time the only thing people can see is the words that it is 3D, there is no screenshots for it yet to show how faithful it will be. I think once we get more into development with it and release assets to the public, it'll be a good time to make judgements.

Pardon the long response, CC is one of my "dear to my heart" series, I always keep a copy or another of one of the CC titles on my laptops.

[Scutarii]

Thanks for the reply, well, i am very "bad" with things that i like, the only way to improved something is complaining, i see the 2D images and yes, its CC, improved in maps is nice but i see to poor the vehicles images... a little of camo doesnt hurt the look of the game

3D.... well, is one solution to the problem of LOS but i think that add an option to highlight terrain lines with elevation in numbers is a easier way, you dont need enter in 3D mode.

Ummm again Europe 1944??? with the title i expect see east front, maybe Kursk or the winter of 1944 retreat.

PD: i think that guys in matrix games needs change the player number, they have all 1 when this is 1-2

[soldier]

I personally look forward to a new close combat style game very much and am not too bothered by a 3d element. In fact its great news. I'm not yet sold on more releases from the old engine though. COI was enough of that.

[JamesNUFC]

Very excited for this!

[MrsWargamer]

3d isn't always 'evil' to a game. I just look forward to it being firmly kept under control.

Battle Academy is technically 3d, well it isn't 2d at any rate.

I won't mind if the rendering gives some depth to the view, just so long at it is fundementally a top down played game and not just a variant of Combat Mission.

I don't hate Combat Mission, but it has WEGO to keep the real time aspect in check. Frankly when I heard they had always preferred real time over WEGO and that WEGO was always considered a concession and that they had shifted to supporting real time more so with the current evolution of the game my response was if you had never made WEGO, your game would have sucked like the rest and would have died like the rest 2 years after it's release. There wouldn't be a Battlefront.com and they would never have had cause to make any expansions. COmbat Mission without WEGO isn't worth the time of day.

I wish there were more companies thinking along the limes of using WEGO. Frankly, I have been wargaming since the mid 70s and I have seen it all. Games that pit the opponent against each other simultaneously are the only ones that remove 'gamey' tactics. Games that pretend to do it with real time interfaces and no turns are also the ones often not worth playing for free. It is really only the flukes that succeed such as Panthers Games' engine. And that is mainly because it uses a realistic command control aspect that simply doesn't instantly respond to every bloody mouse click.

You couldn't pay me to play an average RTS title. Theatre of War for instance simply proves fools and their money are easily separated. I have for no real respect any wargamer willing to say anything nice about those titles. They rate lower than politicians.

[DJ88]

Yes the AI gameplay has been horrible in prior CC version...with the exception of CC2 or CC3. Also the vehicle pathing especially for the AI has issues. I hope that Slitherine can figure-out how to fix these AI and pathing well known issues. Plus there needs to be more random tactics by the AI such as flanking manuevers, ambush, etc. All the AI vehicles do is wander aimlessly.

Glad to see the release date for this with plans for new engine later.

[Scutarii]

Well, now the problems in CC for me are not in vehicle/squad movement, are in the infantry squad performance... think that in matrix last CC games squad´s are reduced a lot (5-6 soldiers) to minimize the bad tactical AI many times you need control all the time your units to prevent a bad deploy of soldiers in terrain... this is now the last problem to solve in CC for me in the combat part, other question is if the new game are going to use the same system of casualties in squads or they are going to improve it with a better system... i refer that now you can lose 4 men in a squad, have 1-2 survivors very veteran or not but you lose both soldiers because the squad is disband and you cant use survivors to join them with other survivors and have a add-hoc squad, a depot system in the operational part of the game is something necesary and maybe a better use of vehicles... something like another depot for damage vehicles, you can send them here and wait to have them repaired.

3D isnt bad if is well done but i never like it a lot because introduce the use of camera controls, in a turn based game like CM is not a problem because you can see turn the times you want or need it but in a real time game... think that in multiplayer you cant stop the game when you want in CC.

[DJ88]

To clarify, I meant AI movement for vehicles. Also the AI is totally useless for putting together any type of strategy on the Strategic Map in terms of movement between sectors... or putting together any type of plan at all.

From the Close Combat Series forum...must cite this comment from a poster to further explain:

"...I see nothing wrong with 21 teams and yes 64 maps is a waste of time against the AI and too cumbersome . After all these releases and mods , I would like to see real air drops like in CC2 where you could reinforce an out of supply or cut off battlegroup and of course a settled upon map size where the AI will actually attack you .Large maps just don't work..."

The issue is that after CC3, Close Combat was designed as more of a multi-player or H2H game. It has been made virtually unplayable against the AI ever since and it actually getting much worse ironically with each new release as the maps keep getting too large.

CC2 is well over 10 years ago old. But easily was the very best in terms of AI gameplay, quality of the production with daily morning briefings with authentic digitally enhanced video footage of the real combat with narrator, the bridge demolition graphics, supply drops and numerous other qualities.

I think Matrix in their previous attempts has overlooked this simple fact...and apparently just assumed everyone wanted huge maps for playing online with multiple players. We already had a multi-player release with huge maps...it really bombed and in fact was the worst selling release in the whole series.

[MajVonRyan]

"Ummm again Europe 1944??? with the title i expect see east front, maybe Kursk or the winter of 1944 retreat".

The winter retreat sounds fine to me! There were many battles on the way to Berlin!

[MajVonRyan]

"...., CC is one of my "dear to my heart" series, I always keep a copy or another of one of the CC titles on my laptops.

So do most of us