The subject of the game may be obscure for some players. I assume many are knowledgable in Japanese Samurai history already so I will just recommend some in relation to Imjin War and Ming China.
Topics in Korean History Imjin War podcast series
http://www.topicsinkoreanhistory.com/tag/imjin-war/
Great Ming Military blog
http://greatmingmilitary.blogspot.sg/?m=1
Feel free to add websites and books on East Asian history including feudal Japan.
Further Reading Online Resources
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
These are great resources. I read the Ming resource, and it had some very good information on Koxinga's troops, and the descriptions seem very close to my understanding. I was pretty shocked that SJ had Ming as such a glass cannon shooty army, to the point it was hard to find troops to act as the counter attacking reserves (apart from Southern Tribal troops). So what I am reading here was
1. Chinese pikes/long spears were longer and considered superior to Japanese Yari , to the point chinese spears they were considered best in the (east asian) world. I had this impression until my first mixed troop with light spears touched an Yari and melted in game.
2. Dutch really hated archers.
3. Iron troops/ iron men had a very good justification to be considered well armoured, perhaps even extremely well armoured. I was surprised at the drawing depiction, never knew there was so much armour.
4. Rattan shields maybe can block bullets on a good day.
5. Chinese anti cavalry tactics for infantry was a counter charge. So much for medium foot cannot charge horses
.
6. Bow armed cavalry can charge archers, or shoot heavy infantry. This pretty much is spot on in the game.
Guess these are good ideas to try in modding in an army list to match these depictions so Ming can be slightly punchier. In game I was surprised the crossbowmen/bowmen/shooters do not contribute much to the melee fight (probably like European Muskets, I guess they were swinging their arquebuses or hand gonnes around). I always thought they carried a halberd or some other personal weapon to contribute to melee, and unlike European Musketeers which the sword was mostly for show, were trained in the use of that weapon and did use it. Trying to picture 84% of the unit simply swinging a crossbow around wasn't my impression.
1. Chinese pikes/long spears were longer and considered superior to Japanese Yari , to the point chinese spears they were considered best in the (east asian) world. I had this impression until my first mixed troop with light spears touched an Yari and melted in game.
2. Dutch really hated archers.
3. Iron troops/ iron men had a very good justification to be considered well armoured, perhaps even extremely well armoured. I was surprised at the drawing depiction, never knew there was so much armour.
4. Rattan shields maybe can block bullets on a good day.
5. Chinese anti cavalry tactics for infantry was a counter charge. So much for medium foot cannot charge horses
. 6. Bow armed cavalry can charge archers, or shoot heavy infantry. This pretty much is spot on in the game.
Guess these are good ideas to try in modding in an army list to match these depictions so Ming can be slightly punchier. In game I was surprised the crossbowmen/bowmen/shooters do not contribute much to the melee fight (probably like European Muskets, I guess they were swinging their arquebuses or hand gonnes around). I always thought they carried a halberd or some other personal weapon to contribute to melee, and unlike European Musketeers which the sword was mostly for show, were trained in the use of that weapon and did use it. Trying to picture 84% of the unit simply swinging a crossbow around wasn't my impression.
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rbodleyscott
- Field of Glory 2
- Posts: 28074
- Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
The absence of a melee capability does not mean that troops are incapable of fighting in melee, it just means they are not above average at doing so. Even pikes don't get a melee POA vs foot unless in very deep formations.
Richard Bodley Scott
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
I would like to see Ming's war wagon could be in game. 
Meditans ex luce mundi
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
That would be cool.melm wrote:I would like to see Ming's war wagon could be in game.
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
I've read the Ming blog quite a bit as well; it seems the author believes that various forms of brigandine and other light armor were quite widespread in Ming armies, even among rank-and-file infantry. I was surprised by the decision in SJ to portray virtually all Ming infantry as unarmored.
Also, it would be great to see a specific army list for the "Koxingers", as the Dutch called them. Potentially a Pike and Shot tie in?
Also, it would be great to see a specific army list for the "Koxingers", as the Dutch called them. Potentially a Pike and Shot tie in?
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
I agree, the lack of a Ming Remnants list is something that needs to be modded in asap, along with the Colonial Dutch and Portuguese and Russians.
There needs to be finer gradients of armour in the game. Most troops in SJ are either unarmoured or armoured, and only very few units are well armoured (Hatamoto samurai).
In pike and shot we had Extremely well armoured (gendarmes, possibly Iron Men in SJ or others), as well as "some men are armoured" which is halfway between armoured and unarmoured and could fit very well into the brigandine units.
On the topic of Chinese mixed units having most of the unit with no additional melee capability, I just can't reconcile that the shooters either had the melee weapons, but lacked the skill or will to use them, or never had their weapons at all.
For example, the mob units are armed, with various implements such as spears or heavy weapons, but because they lack training they have no melee capability. European musketeers had swords, but lacked the will to use them, and sometimes completely lacked the training to use them. Turkish cavalry had lances, but for the most part charged with swords and shot with bows, so no lance capability.
However, are we really certain that the shooters lacked weapons, or lacked the training in it, or lacked the will or doctrine to use dedicated melee weapons in a melee? That seems to imply highly reliable firearms, and I think there are several accounts that Ming firearms, as opposed to Japanese Teppo, were prone to misfires, so soldiers were trained in melee with their side arm for the eventuality the firearm breaks down. The unreliable firearms may have been an artifact of late Ming corruption and decline though.
There needs to be finer gradients of armour in the game. Most troops in SJ are either unarmoured or armoured, and only very few units are well armoured (Hatamoto samurai).
In pike and shot we had Extremely well armoured (gendarmes, possibly Iron Men in SJ or others), as well as "some men are armoured" which is halfway between armoured and unarmoured and could fit very well into the brigandine units.
On the topic of Chinese mixed units having most of the unit with no additional melee capability, I just can't reconcile that the shooters either had the melee weapons, but lacked the skill or will to use them, or never had their weapons at all.
For example, the mob units are armed, with various implements such as spears or heavy weapons, but because they lack training they have no melee capability. European musketeers had swords, but lacked the will to use them, and sometimes completely lacked the training to use them. Turkish cavalry had lances, but for the most part charged with swords and shot with bows, so no lance capability.
However, are we really certain that the shooters lacked weapons, or lacked the training in it, or lacked the will or doctrine to use dedicated melee weapons in a melee? That seems to imply highly reliable firearms, and I think there are several accounts that Ming firearms, as opposed to Japanese Teppo, were prone to misfires, so soldiers were trained in melee with their side arm for the eventuality the firearm breaks down. The unreliable firearms may have been an artifact of late Ming corruption and decline though.
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
Hi. Another one. Many pictures (from movies ). Some historical essays.
http://dragonsarmory.blogspot.sg/?m=1
). Some historical essays.http://dragonsarmory.blogspot.sg/?m=1
Last edited by jomni on Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
Hmm... He used many snapshots from movies or TV-series. 
Meditans ex luce mundi
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
Yeah quite "entertaining". Lolmelm wrote:Hmm... He used many snapshots from movies or TV-series.
Just ignore them and focus on the text.
If you read the comments the blogger from Great Ming Military is engaging him. Interesting discussions.
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
I've read several comments and have to say Great Ming Military blogger is more accurate.jomni wrote:Yeah quite "entertaining". Lolmelm wrote:Hmm... He used many snapshots from movies or TV-series.
Just ignore them and focus on the text.
If you read the comments the blogger from Great Ming Military is engaging him. Interesting discussions.
Meditans ex luce mundi
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lafittejean
- Private First Class - Opel Blitz
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 8:29 pm
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
Coincidentally the guy who does the Great Ming Military Blog recently posted his thoughts on this game (can't post link cause forum thinks I'm a newbie spammer account).
I particularly was thinking about armor again, which he discusses in the post, it just seems like at the moment if you're not playing a Japanese faction in this game you don't have too much in the way of armored non-elite units.
I particularly was thinking about armor again, which he discusses in the post, it just seems like at the moment if you're not playing a Japanese faction in this game you don't have too much in the way of armored non-elite units.
Re: Further Reading Online Resources
Coincidentally, when talking about both movies and the Great Ming Blog, I watched a terrible depiction of the Mandarin Duck Squad in a movie. Frankly, I should be thankful that Mandarin duck squad even made it to a movie, but the movie depicted 5 guys, 3 with shields and holding no weapons, and 2 with fire spears.
The firespear people made a few desultory stabs, then lit their fireworks, which caused the enemy (a single chinese wokou with wokou sword) to fall back and down, and said.
"As expected, Mandarin Duck squad defeats wokou swords". I almost chocked on my steamed bun
, since the Ming Blog had a much better idea about the squad, and off course 5 guys should beat one guy, wokou sword or not.
Although I did find out that Wokou were not exlusively or even majority Japanese, and contained substantial (chinese) Islander (like the DaChen islands off the coast of ZheJiang Province) and Korean members.
The firespear people made a few desultory stabs, then lit their fireworks, which caused the enemy (a single chinese wokou with wokou sword) to fall back and down, and said.
"As expected, Mandarin Duck squad defeats wokou swords". I almost chocked on my steamed bun
, since the Ming Blog had a much better idea about the squad, and off course 5 guys should beat one guy, wokou sword or not.Although I did find out that Wokou were not exlusively or even majority Japanese, and contained substantial (chinese) Islander (like the DaChen islands off the coast of ZheJiang Province) and Korean members.