fighting in overlap and commanders in front rank

[zaknafir]

Hello,

Can a comander be in front rank of a BG that's fighting only in a position of overlap?

Thanks

[SirGarnet]

Yes indeed, and an effective idea too as he is not at risk from the enemy and his BG can move out of overlap to release him from the front rank.

[sagji]

Hello,

Can a comander be in front rank of a BG that's fighting only in a position of overlap?

Thanks

Yes - provided you have a front rank base that is in contact with the enemy. Corner to corner contact is sufficient, however there are a couple of cases where you can fight as an overlap without being able to place the commander in contact. If you are overlapping on a flank that didn't turn, or for a BG that didn't conform, then the overlapping BG might not be in contact with the overlapped BG.

[Splinter]

I have a different opinion.

Rules for troops fighting in overlap are described on the page 76 of the Rulebook, in the part BATTLE GROUPS ALREADY IN CONTACT BUT NOT YET COMMITTED TO CLOSE COMBAT.
There it says: "Battle Groups in front corner to front corner contact only are not committed to close combat, and are free to move away."

Rules for commanders in close combat are described in the page 99 of the Rulebook in the part COMMANDERS IN CLOSE COMBAT.
There says: "A commander can be declared to be fighting in the front rank of a single battle group in close combat".

[zaknafir]

(Assuming that a commander can be in front rank with a BG that is in a position of overlap)





*(4) has fighted(2) in overlap position during red's turn
*now begins GREEN TURN:

- Must (4) pass a CMT not to charge (1) ?... and if they charge: what happens with the joined commander?
- Can (3) fire to (4) with no POA penalty for "BG in close combat"?
- (4) receives 2 hits from (3) and must pass a cohesion test: Can (4) use the +2 bonus for the IC that's behind?



thanks

[sagji]

A unit that is fighting as an overlap is in combat, but if the BG is only fighting as an overlap it is not commited to close combat - i.e. it can move away. Consequently it can have a commander in the front rank as it is in combat.


In the diagram (4) can't fight as an overlap as it is not side edge contacts with friends who are in front edge contact with the overlapped base - see the definiton of overlap on p75.

If there was a green BG to its right that was fighting then it would count as an overlap.

Must (4) pass a CMT not to charge (1)

Yes - the BG, even if fighting as an overlap, is not commited to close combat so is free to move away - thus it is free to to charge, so if shock troups may charge without orders.

and if they charge: what happens with the joined commander?

The commander remains commited to the front rank - he can only leave if the BG ceases to be in close combat or in contact with routers.

Can (3) fire to (4) with no POA penalty for "BG in close combat"?

If (4) charges (1) Then it can't be shot at by (3)
If it remains where it is, and has a friend to enable it to count as an overlap, it can be shot at without penalty as it would in close combat only as an overlap.

Can (4) use the +2 bonus for the IC that's behind?

Only if it doesn't charge (1), and doesn't have a friend to enable it to count as an overlap, as in these cases it is in close combat. As pictured then yes as it is not in close combat.